Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

I understand your point, but previously you purchased contents and container. You could use the container as you wished. Now, you must purchase the container (if you wish to keep it) so you are now paying for contents plus .15 or .25 for the container, that is a price increase if keeping the container, NOT a price increase if you sort, clean and return it.

You haven't explained where the 60 cent will come from to pay you when you return the cans.

It's not that I don't get it, the truth is nobody can get it.

Right on!

Manual returns seemed to be very important to the Minister in his promo spots. I tried in the 1 listed in my rural town and…….

The people on the Cooley peninsula ... ever think they might be shopping in Newry?

A lot of the stuff in Newry can't be sold to EU citizens. There are some shops in Cooley.

"This requirement is in effect from 1 October 2023. These requirements apply to all retail establishments in Northern Ireland. 

Food products that do not have an individual product label and have moved under NIRMS should have shelf-level labels with the words 'Not for EU '"

The question about percentages makes no sense. Ten thousand containers bought in March could have come in today, and twenty thousand bought in June could come in tomorrow. Or in six months time. No container can ever be counted as not going to come back.

Oh come on-can't be sold to EU citizens? What ye smoking? Lived in Dundalk and have a son there now. They asking for ID or passports in Newry or Jonesborough? WTF

But this is patently BS. You and others like you state that there are issues with the scheme and that the scheme will be improved because it's never been done anywhere else on the world before.

Fair enough.

But then you give Re Turn an absolute out when you say they are dead right to wait until next July to see where things are at.

How are they expected or supposed to make changes when they aren't going to review anything till next July?

I work with lots of people who dont know that this thread exists who are equally as disillusioned as many on here. Surely you know a few as well? Granted it's nots a riveting conversation but ask a few people you know from various environments what they think of the scheme?

heard they're checking proof of residency in Asda now alright

No Asda in Newry.

What you are talking about has nothing to do with Re-turn products.

You'll have to do a helluva lot better than "It has something to do with Brexit I think" because it is obvious you don't know what you're talking about but somehow still feel the need to defend Re-turn.

Well said. As I have posted before, I am very pro recycling, doing it since early 80's, very Green but not necessarily of the party, hope to leave mother earth in a better place for my children and grandchildren. This scheme in my opinion does nothing but increase costs for people like me, pisses of people to no end and does little to address the problems, and seems to be set up to absolve politicians of any blame to reach RECYCLING targets NOT collection targets.

We are a small economy/island and may never get the recycling plants we need, but let's not pretend.

Many questions via numerous studies cast doubt on the whole Plastic recycling scenario, where perhaps we should be working on the reduction in plastics manufactured as opposed to the recycling.

I cannot imagine that ReTurn, with the composition of the board ever even discussing using less plastics in their products because it would likely come with increased costs and decreased profits.

My optimism for a greener Ireland is suffering.

You mention it is vague enough where it will be recycled. Load of bs, they harp on about collection rates yet rarely mention recycle rates and where. We incinerate 70% of plastics, what % is PET bottles I have not been able to find out. But it would piss me off if I pay a deposit, clean and sort the bottle, and then return it, to find out it has been put in the fire ffs!

Excuse me, not sure what you are referring to?

Nope, thats wrong. But your first sentence is correct.

If the full price of product (containers + contents) was 6 euro, any increase in the product price above 6 euro is a price increase.

You said it yourself, before the DRS, 6 euro got you the contents + the containers.

If the new DRS price is 6.60 and you do return your containers, your 6 euro now only paid for the contents.

6 euro for contents + containers (Product) > 6 euro for contents only.

There is a price increase. Its been outlined numerous times.

Ask any accountant, they will probably explain it more clearly.

Stall the digger. Talking about "the next step" - when the outcome of this step won't be known at best until July 2025 and any changes to the scheme wont be in place for months after that with another review in 2026 most likely……who really knows - while all the while the coffers of re-turn continue to swell so that they can peddle the nonsense that they are peddling to us currently.

Still nothing in place for people who are house bound, shop from home or who have mobility issues - despite promises that these would all be looked at……..retailers and drinks companies increasing the base prices of the product, increasing the cost per unit costs for consumers, bin companies hiking figures, no where near 90 percent being collected, people destroying bins, littering, looking for these items, issues at air/sea ports, machines not reliable.

It's august - this started in Feb with apparantly massive research done into how "best practices" were elsewhere and apparantly a massive public consultation process.

But lookit, it will be alright next July.

We need the bins they have in Germany, with bottle holders for people to place the bottles in & that are external to the bin itself and are clearly visible.

This allows people to take the bottles, without having to rummage through the bin itself and leave a mess behind.

We probably wont get them for years though.

Of course they want to wait. Perhaps they add few more months to that deadline since they get to keep deposit for 2.000.000 containers a day…

Out of 5M sold and 3M returned they are looking at nice bonuses.

a quango=state body.state money to set it up and ensure enough returns money to pay quangiis wages are in quango bank account on due date must mean hidden or disclosed top ups by Dept Environment

That's the Irish way. Jobs for the boys. Return is no different. Zero transparency only pie in the sky green rhetoric.

From Chartered Accountants Ireland:

Apr 02, 2024

Revenue has published a new Tax and Duty Manual to provide guidance on the VAT treatment appropriate to Deposit Return Scheme (DRS) refunds. The DRS came into operation on 1 February 2024 and provides for a small refundable deposit on drink products supplied in plastic bottles and aluminium or steel cans. The deposit is refunded to a person who returns an empty container to the DRS for recycling or reuse. 

Section 92A VATCA 2010 legislates for the VAT treatment of the DRS. Because it is not possible for businesses in the supply chain (e.g. manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers) to know at the time they make their supplies whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty, no VAT arises on supplies of drink products in the supply chain. VAT on the deposit only arises where the container is not returned under the DRS, in which case it is the Scheme Operator, Re-turn, who is liable to account for and pay the tax. Re-turn was appointed by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to operate the DRS.  

Yeah there's some misinformation on the thread alright. A lot of it emanating from Re-turn.

And yesterday you were claiming 'Not for EU' labelling could materially hinder ROI shoppers buying Re-turn products in NI. When asked to support that… you provided exactly nothing despite multiple posters querying you on it.

Posters asking about manual returns … somehow you directed the conversation to Brexit without cause.
Posters asking about increases in prices coincident with Return being rolled out… somehow you directed the conversation to the war in Ukraine without cause.
Ring any bells?

Stick to the facts indeed. The information in self serving press releases from the laughing jackasses in Return and the Green Party are not facts.

And you haven't actually said what Return is?

It is worse than a Quango. A Quango would be more accountable.

Irrelevant.

I wasn't disputing the mechanics of the charging system; I said there has been a product price increase, where at least some DRS products are concerned.

The info you posted would be equally applied to DRS products, if there had been no increase in product price.

In other words, the extract makes no judgement on whether or not the deposit is added to the original product price, or is absorbed into the current product price.

No more comments from me on this one sorry, you either get it, or you don't.