Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Stall the digger. Talking about "the next step" - when the outcome of this step won't be known at best until July 2025 and any changes to the scheme wont be in place for months after that with another review in 2026 most likely……who really knows - while all the while the coffers of re-turn continue to swell so that they can peddle the nonsense that they are peddling to us currently.

Still nothing in place for people who are house bound, shop from home or who have mobility issues - despite promises that these would all be looked at……..retailers and drinks companies increasing the base prices of the product, increasing the cost per unit costs for consumers, bin companies hiking figures, no where near 90 percent being collected, people destroying bins, littering, looking for these items, issues at air/sea ports, machines not reliable.

It's august - this started in Feb with apparantly massive research done into how "best practices" were elsewhere and apparantly a massive public consultation process.

But lookit, it will be alright next July.

We need the bins they have in Germany, with bottle holders for people to place the bottles in & that are external to the bin itself and are clearly visible.

This allows people to take the bottles, without having to rummage through the bin itself and leave a mess behind.

We probably wont get them for years though.

Of course they want to wait. Perhaps they add few more months to that deadline since they get to keep deposit for 2.000.000 containers a day…

Out of 5M sold and 3M returned they are looking at nice bonuses.

a quango=state body.state money to set it up and ensure enough returns money to pay quangiis wages are in quango bank account on due date must mean hidden or disclosed top ups by Dept Environment

That's the Irish way. Jobs for the boys. Return is no different. Zero transparency only pie in the sky green rhetoric.

From Chartered Accountants Ireland:

Apr 02, 2024

Revenue has published a new Tax and Duty Manual to provide guidance on the VAT treatment appropriate to Deposit Return Scheme (DRS) refunds. The DRS came into operation on 1 February 2024 and provides for a small refundable deposit on drink products supplied in plastic bottles and aluminium or steel cans. The deposit is refunded to a person who returns an empty container to the DRS for recycling or reuse. 

Section 92A VATCA 2010 legislates for the VAT treatment of the DRS. Because it is not possible for businesses in the supply chain (e.g. manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers) to know at the time they make their supplies whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty, no VAT arises on supplies of drink products in the supply chain. VAT on the deposit only arises where the container is not returned under the DRS, in which case it is the Scheme Operator, Re-turn, who is liable to account for and pay the tax. Re-turn was appointed by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to operate the DRS.  

Yeah there's some misinformation on the thread alright. A lot of it emanating from Re-turn.

And yesterday you were claiming 'Not for EU' labelling could materially hinder ROI shoppers buying Re-turn products in NI. When asked to support that… you provided exactly nothing despite multiple posters querying you on it.

Posters asking about manual returns … somehow you directed the conversation to Brexit without cause.
Posters asking about increases in prices coincident with Return being rolled out… somehow you directed the conversation to the war in Ukraine without cause.
Ring any bells?

Stick to the facts indeed. The information in self serving press releases from the laughing jackasses in Return and the Green Party are not facts.

And you haven't actually said what Return is?

It is worse than a Quango. A Quango would be more accountable.

Irrelevant.

I wasn't disputing the mechanics of the charging system; I said there has been a product price increase, where at least some DRS products are concerned.

The info you posted would be equally applied to DRS products, if there had been no increase in product price.

In other words, the extract makes no judgement on whether or not the deposit is added to the original product price, or is absorbed into the current product price.

No more comments from me on this one sorry, you either get it, or you don't.

Re-turn is not a quango and no state money was provided to set it up.

Your DOE theory is made up stuff.

The Deposit Return Scheme will help reduce single-use plastics, help Ireland meet EU targets, and move towards a circular economy where valuable resources are re-used or recycled as much as possible."

If that was the plan, why did they not bring the deposit on to plastic bottles and leave cans alone?

Thats rhetorical question. The answer is obvious, the cans are valuable.

Look at any price display, or any purchase receipt. That will tell you whether the deposit has been added to the original product price. It hasn't, they are shown separately as the product price and deposit price.

Any accountant will tell you the same.

You forfeit the deposit…

Honestly, there are issues with the deposit scheme that are genuine.

People calling it a price increase destroys any credibility to the arguments and makes those people look stupid.

I don't say gas price has doubled if I have to buy a canister, I don't count the deposit as part of the price if I'm renting equipment, I don't say rent has doubled because I pay a deposit in the first month.

This facade is not. We both know that already.

But there is a deposit on every can and bottle I buy which I cant return, so for me it is a price increase. Why is this so difficult for people like you to understand?!?

And I gave examples of prices decreases since February. But I did not link that to DRS, because I don't know the reason. I just wanted to show that the particular product I know about was reduced in price.

Have you got evidence to show that the Lucozade price increase was due to an "opportunity" taken by anyone in the supply chain? Did you ask any of them for an explanation?

The only reference I made to July (I should have said June) 2025, was the variability in sales at different times of year. DRS want to wait to use a full year's figures. The accountants agree with another point I made. Nobody knows when or if any container will come back. I don't have tens of "issues" with the scheme. I don't worry about stuff which annoys some other people.

"Because it is not possible for businesses in the supply chain (e.g. manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers) to know at the time they make their supplies whether or not containers will eventually be returned when they are empty, no VAT arises on supplies of drink products in the supply chain."