Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Retail in Waterford City

1456810

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    Its had an effect alright and reducing people's ability to get into towns to shop has only exacerbated the issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    I don't know if I agree with this notion that the town is gone crap. I'm down there most days and the shops are usually very busy especially in the red square and Michael street area. Plus despite the fact that we are way overpopulated with coffee shops they are always packed. Look at Carter's cafe it's a goldmine. Yes we probably rely too much on Penny's and the parking situation is dire but are cities like Limerick and Cork and Galway really doing well for bricks and mortar shops? Are folks there queueing up at 9am to fill every single shop from opening to closing, including all the shops in the side streets? Can anyone really say objectively that those cities are burying Waterford in terms of shopping?

    Online shopping isn't unique to Waterford. All shops in Ireland have to work so much harder to keep people buying from them and I have travelled enough of the country to know that boarded up shops are in every city and town and village, victim of high rents, evolving shopping habits and anti social problems in the evening. One line that's always thrown out about Waterford is it's dead after 6pm. But...have you tried walking into a restaurant on Friday through Sunday without a booking? Forget it! Places like Burza, Peppers, Momo, Mclearys, Bodega etc etc are packed to the rafters with plenty of money still in the city. Judging a city on a metric like shops not opening until 9pm is a bit short sighted and misses the point that we still have a lot going for us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Conversion of the former Clark’s to a food outlet has been given permission. Don’t know who exactly is going in though. It’s under the name Geoffrey Coad, but I assume that’s the same Coad family that operated the building before it was Clark’s?

    https://www.wlrfm.com/news/former-waterford-shoe-store-set-to-become-food-outlet-367041



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Valhalla90


    Rumor doing the rounds it’s Burger King but to be honest I can’t see it they seem to be closing in so many city centre locations. Hopefully it’s true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭deisemum


    Galway's not great for shopping these days, granted it's got Brown Thomas and a couple of other shops already mentioned that aren't in Waterford but a lot of shops moved to Athlone. A lot of people in Galway will head to Athlone for some retail shopping. The traffic in Galway is very bad and another reason to keep avoid the city centre.

    My sisters and nieces love shopping in Waterford when they visit and like the independent shops and Shaws which is much better than the one in Limerick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭914


    Shaws deserve a lot of credit, re investing in the store, downstairs looks great.

    They probably need to improve advertising what is upstairs as there is a tonne of different shops up there but you wouldn't know unless you ventured up there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    The old Alfie Hale’s in Arundel Square finally has a new occupant. Though the bad news is that its just Hidden Hearing relocating from across the street rather than something new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭decies




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    The Quay looks absolutely shocking lately. So many shop fronts are very grubby or derelict. See people sleeping in the doorways. There's a whole row of vacant buildings and a casino in the middle (classy). The Grattan would want a lick of paint. The Quay is the first impression many people driving into the city get and its not a pretty one. It needs a bit of tidying up. Gives off skidrow vibes.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Another 'vicious circle' ..

    Go into store - "hi do you have these in size ten?"

    Disinterested teenager - " no, you have to buy those online" ..

    Eye roll - "ok, 'thanks' "

    retailers not keeping customers coming to buy in 'brick and mortar' stores by trying to reduce workers-reduce wages , by driving online sales doesnt help either..

    Bare shelves in stores, and being told to buy it online…

    A lot of them are killing themselves by a thousand cuts ……

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    You should get out more. This is a universal trend. Very evident in some parts of mainland Europe,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    I don’t know what the big delay was, but I saw the builders back at work in Aldi City Square today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Whats with the sh1tty attitude?

    I know its a Universal (?) - more like - worldwide trend , i was expanding on what a previous poster said…
    You appear to be a Perpetually offended by everything individual …. Grow up…

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭deisemum


    I was in Cork for the weekend and enjoyed this. I cannot even remember when I last was in a Burger King it's been that long.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    MMMMMMmmmmmmm …. best thing about going on hols from Dublin airport…… A big dirty BK whopper before flying 🤩 😃

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 317 ✭✭nomoedoe


    Yeah it has a drive thru one that i know of could have more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    It was meant to be ironic as I presume everyone knows its a universal trend, but apologies if it offended you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Valhalla90


    There is also one in the city centre. But McDonald’s recently closed their city centre restaurant there, which is not a good sign.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭mart 23


    Burger King have 4 restaurants in Limerick city.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    I'm not sure if you are one as I don't spend a huge amount of time on this board but some people in Waterford seem to excuse Waterford's failings by pointing to retail struggling elsewhere.

    Waterford has quite possibly the worst retail offering of a city its size that I've ever been in. Retail is also suffering in some countries. Both things can be true but it doesn't excuse Waterford's abysmal offering.

    The first step towards fixing a problem is acknowledging the problem in the first place and oh boy does Waterford's retail have a problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    I acknowledge the problem. I would not be as severe as you, but…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Valhalla90


    I think the majority of people in Waterford are aware of the weak retail offering for its size. I think some were holding out hope with City Square that something decent would come. As of now we only have a Aldi store. Something needs to give or we are going to stay stagnant. Council/councillors/business owners in the city need to ask some questions. Why are the big names not coming. Is it rent? Location? Footfall? There is huge retail spending leakage from the city. One big name store would change the city centre. Waterford has so much potential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    The sheer amount of retail leakage out of the city backs is there for everyone to see.

    I probably wasn't severe enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    It would be nice to know this but the council can't seem to put their finger on it.

    Most of their comments strike me as "oh well we tried" or "no point in trying because retail is suffering everywhere".

    The only solid indication I ever got from them was the level of disposable income in Waterford, which has increased over the years apparently but has not resulted in additional retailers.

    I've said it elsewhere but retailers just don't want to set up here. We had a site on the river that could have fixed the issue but that ship has also now sailed with a thoroughly disappointing plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    Driving into the city from the bridge is dire for a start. A whole row of vacant buildings with a tacky casino in the middle. You get the impression looking at the city that its in decline. More pubs on the quay vacant than doing business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭BBM77


    It is simple. Most people want to drive when going shopping. The council won’t allow, rightfully, out of town shopping centres. They continue to make it hard to drive into the city centre and pursue a plan of reducing the capacity of the city centre to handle traffic, remove parking, don’t do anything about the problem of driving into the city centre from the most prosperous suburb. Retailer see all this and are not inclined to set up in the city centre. Not to mention the punitive rates businesses have to pay. And when trading in the city centre they are paying rates to a council that is actively making it hard for them to attract customers. I am not a car nut by any means. But the reality is that the traffic caused by the tolled bypass, not having a downstream bridge and the council’s pursuit of reducing the car capacity in the city centre is what is doing the damage to city centre retail to my mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Yeah, it’s awful how they removed parking by, er, expanding Bolton Street and adding Waterside.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,707 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Ahh yeh right…. and that wonderful one way system …..

    Magic.

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭JVince


    Waterford has a population of 105,000 within 30 minutes drive of the city centre.

    Galway and limerick have over 200,000 using the same metric.

    That's the primary reason why Waterford is not a key location for retailers.

    It's not traffic, it's not parking it's not online, it's simply the population metrics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    If you think that’s an actual problem, you’ve little to be bothering you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    Interesting, I didn't think the disparity with Galway was that much. Have you a link to where we can see those stats?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭JVince


    I'm sure they are available online. My info comes from retail research publications.

    Unfortunately Waterford is not mentioned in the top tier of locations Dundrum, Blanch, Dublin City, Liffey Valley, Swords, Tallaght, Newbridge, Cork City, Cork Mahon, Galway, Limerick.

    I had a suggesting years ago that the council should have a grant scheme to improve retail units and they would then be offered to independent retailers at a lower rent and at beneficial rates. A thriving independent retail offering would be more attractive especially to visitors. Kilkenny is a good example of a very strong independent retail offering.

    When i was in active retail (semi retired now), I looked at City Square. They had next to zero interest in me as I was an independent retailer with just 3 outlets and they quoted a high rent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    I was locked out of Boards because of permission issues.

    On any analysis, this isochrone is incorrect and should neither be quoted by you or accepted. 30 minutes travel from Waterford city includes Carrick, New Ross, Tramore, a lot of west Wexford and s/e Tipp and nearly half of county Kilkenny. 30 minutes would bring you to Kilkenny and Wexford towns via the M9 and N25. I have not included them. A cursory glance shows urban areas, Waterford city 60079, New Ross 8600, Carrick, 5752, Dungarvan 10081 and Tramore 11277, which adds up to approx 100,000 without counting any of the rural populations in between.

    Waterford city has according to city planners, more than twice the retail floor area of any other area in the south east. The disparity that people feel most is in comparison shopping in the city centre. This is based on historic factors to do mainly IMHO with the once commanding financial position and influence of one very large industry. There is currently zero problem with convenience shopping for food or other consumables, cars, big box furniture, white goods, building supplies or any other retail category. EZ living furniture have developed a lovely store on the Cork Road near Mc Donalds. A large new Pet Shop has opened next to JYSK. Tesco for example have recently done a huge job on their Poleberry store and it looks like a top class delicatessen now. A new home ware shop Choice (i think) is developing a very large unit there as well. These developments counter the retail doom mechants on this forum.

    The city centre comparison retail offer obviously needs to be upgraded. That has long been understood and accepted by those who post here. It is very difficult to do in times of on line retail and a general retreat from bricks and mortar retail, for example recent closure of all Ted Baker shops across Ireland. The closure of pubs demands a category/forum of its own

    Those who condemn retail in the city overall (and some who extend that condemnation to the city as a whole) are talking through their tin foil hats. We tend to be our own worst enemy in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭JVince


    Retail research uses the typical 30 minutes travel to include navigating the city traffic and accessing carparking on a typical Saturday afternoon.

    It's standardised and an acceptable measurement. In terms of km, it's about 20km. (12 miles in the UK)

    Waterford comes in at 106,573

    The 15 min measurement comes in at just over 62,000.

    Many other factors are used too especially what similar stores are already located there (that actually can encourage retailers), but population is a primary factor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Take your point of on expanding Bolton Street and adding Waterside carparks.

    Not disagreeing with you but all the retail that is working well you mentioned is car based. That is my point, to get city centre retail to the level we all want the council is going to have to make it easier to drive into the city centre. And frankly, they need to care about the problem. Doing stupid schemes to force traffic on to a tolled bypass is not solving anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,625 ✭✭✭wmpdd3


    I've worked in retail in Waterford and Kilkenny city. Kilkenny have nurtured their retail offering. Especially their independent traders. When I was a manager up there I had to attend monthly retail meetings with the city retail committee , if there were issues with our store front etc, it would be raised at the meetings so you'd try get it sorted beforehand.

    Not Kilkenny is far from perfect, but they do often outperform Waterford for city center footfall and turnover per retail sq ft.

    I worked for a few British high st. brands that considered Waterford for stores / upgraded stores but pull back when the figures didn't add up.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    Thanks for that.

    I am always wary of using UK metrics for anything in Ireland. The 200,000 figure is acceptable for Limerick but hardly for Galway where their retail pull/product is a factor of tourism spend rather than local population. The 62000 figure is risible as Waterford city population is 61000 and Tramore is 11000. Are we to believe that Tramore is not in the city's retail zone? Or the 15000 or so in immediate south Kilkenny? Or that its not possible to drive from New Ross and park in the city in less than 30 minutes?

    I agree with your points about independent retailers.

    Post edited by azimuth17 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭JVince


    It's a standardised format. They don't go to places and see how long it takes from a to b.

    A fairly simple algorithm spews out most of these statistics.

    It simply gives an oversight.

    Unfortunately Waterford is not even close to making the top tier for many retailers. Some will want to put 3 or 4 formats into a location eg Timberland, Vans and North face are all the same company. They need the population to support the business.

    Good local retailers are the life blood of places like Waterford. Support them and more will open



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    I think a lot of problems are affecting Waterford are things that are outside our control, you see the shops like Gamestop, Argos, Shoezone, Debenhams, close shops, Ted Baker to close shops in Dublin being the latest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Chip Whitley


    A big blow for independent retail in the city with the news of Finders Keepers and Bebhinn closing up in the coming weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    They will just be phone and coffee shops left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    As you seem to have some detailed knowledge about retail populations could I ask that you help me better understand by providing me with some references or website details for the data you quote please? The numbers seem counterintuitive for Waterford.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭coupons1987


    a staff member in Aldi in the glen said their new store in City Square is delayed as Dunnes have taken an injunction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭JVince


    It's industry figures. There's no specific website.

    You'd see some exaggerated versions in estate agent brochures when trying to lease a unit.

    You might find some brochures online such as butlerstown retail park.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Which is the most prosperous suburb of the city?

    Are the council attempting park and ride facilities to offset people driving in?

    What kind of shops do people feel are missing fron the city, out of interest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Interesting that Kilkenny would have larger foortfall than Waterford.

    Isn't Waterford twice the population of Kilkenny? Kilkenny would have more tourists i expect.

    Post edited by BlueSkyDreams on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭friendlyfun




  • Advertisement
Advertisement