2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

TheRef · 10-08-2024 1:45pm

Haha. I know how you feel. But you got it done.

What you done this morning is not normal and very few people have done what you just did. Take great heart from that and know that it does get easier.

Make sure you drink plenty of fluids and eat something healthy to help the recovery.

Congrats.

marathon2022 · 10-08-2024 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122486849#Comment_122486849

Well done, nice steady pace. Don't worry about the last two miles, pretty normal. You listened to your body and did the right thing.

Mantis Toboggan · 11-08-2024 9:20am

For anyone here, do you carry your phone when running? If so, how?

Also do you plan to carry it for the race?

SimpleDimple · 11-08-2024 9:29am

Hit all the miles this week. I did just go for a walk on Tuesday rather than run, but it was one of those days.
I decided as well that I’m going to switch to the boards plan going forward; this week on the Hal Novice 2 plan the miles aligned with the boards plan, and with the 10 mile race next week I figured it might make more sense to switch now so I’ll have a plan to stick to, rather than have to chop and change the hal plan.

mossiepark · 11-08-2024 11:22am

I'm not sure if I'll carry it for the marathon but I do carry it during training runs during the week. Usually run at lunch time so I need to be contactable for work.

I wear under armour compression shorts under my shorts and I don't even know I have the phone on me. They have a neat little phone pocket.

Under Armour Herren UA HG Armour Gym Sport Running Shorts https://amzn.eu/d/714t0tt

Sunny Dayz · 11-08-2024 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489877#Comment_122489877

I usually bring my phone on my long run, even though it's a group run - it's just in case there's an emergency. And also because my husband is doing his long runs now the same time as me but not with me so just in case he has any issues.

I use a flip belt - find it handy for getting bits in and out of. Didn't find it comfortable for slotting the little water bottle in though.

https://therunhub.ie/products/flipbelt-black?variant=40339320799315&currency=EUR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn73BltHthwMVZZFQBh1SvieTEAQYASABEgLyCPD_BwE

For the race - last year I was dead set on running with my phone - thinking of the pre race, mid race and finish line selfies! But I decided a few weeks out not to bother with it and it was the right decision. I think because I had a friend with me most of the day I didn't need it. Also you are so preoccupied with the race in hand that you don't have any time for selfies, plenty of time after for those.

marathon2022 · 11-08-2024 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489877#Comment_122489877

No phone, for marathon day especially. For the novices I would recommend leaving it at home. Go run

witnessmenow · 11-08-2024 8:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489877#Comment_122489877

I wear a run belt, just cheap ones from Amazon. One is just a basic one, the other holds water bottles for longer runs.

I'm currently brining it on all my runs, I don't interact with it at all though. On training runs I do usually listen to music, and while my watch can supply the music, I find the phone more convenient. On longer runs I do like the security of having if something goes wrong cause I could be in the middle of no where!

I'll bring mine with me on the day, I don't find it any hinderence having it, and it enables live tracking with my Garmin which gives my wife peace of mind. I brought it last year too.

But saying that, I don't think you need to have a phone with you, so it's really a personal preference. If you'd be more comfortable with it for whatever reason, go for it.

Mantis Toboggan · 11-08-2024 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122491680#Comment_122491680

True although the Bluetooth on my watch is hit or miss at the moment which is annoying when listening to podcasts.

Also, if I've to drop out due to injury anyone who's in to see me won't know, won't be able to find me or I won't be able to find them

Thinking I should invest in a hydration vest to start getting used to it. Currently using a bean bag style belt which is decent.

Mantis Toboggan · 11-08-2024 9:17pm

Did the long run today, 24k longest I've ever ran. Did all runs too but had to fit it around bringing the kids everywhere as I was off work for the week. Fairly exhausted now, thankfully knee held up.

Day off tomorrow and thankfully back to work so some time for recovery.

marathon2022 · 11-08-2024 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122491909#Comment_122491909

No phone or earphones for me 😄. Belts are my preference. The one below is cheap as chips and could hold phones, earphones, soft bottles and gels for the big day.

OneNine Running Belt, Multifunctional Knit Breathable Concealed Waist Bag, Key Clip, Running Phone Holder, Running Pouch for Men and Women

https://amzn.eu/d/eSXWbnA

Sunny Dayz · 11-08-2024 9:27pm

WEEK 8

The hardest part of running a marathon is getting the training in and we can see that everyone is making a great effort to get the runs in and seem to have settled into a routine. 18 weeks (or whatever the length of your training plan) is a long time to stay committed and focused to a goal. The miles you are running and the excellent training you are putting in will stand to you; the victory lap in October will make all the sacrifices well worth it (I hope!!).

The Frank Duffy 10 mile the coming weekend will be a significant milestone for many of you on your DCM journey that it will give you a great chance to practice race strategy and preparation – things like pre-race breakfast, race fuel, not starting too fast, mental strength. As it’s race week, sleeping, eating and drinking are going to be vital. Keep an eye on your hydration habits, especially as it’s been quite humid lately so maybe pop a hydration tablet in your water this week. Try to get the sleep in with a few early nights during the week and make healthy food choices.

In terms of race pace, we’d suggest a little slower than your 10k pace from your most recent race, remember not to go out to fast and if you still have good legs at the final few kms then feel free to push on if you can. Use this race as a good opportunity to learn what works for you in a race setting. Very best of luck to all those racing and remember to report back and let us know how you found it

Plan of action for the coming week as follows:

For those not racing, week 8 will look like this:

For those racing the 10 Miler, Week 8 is as follows :

There’s been some chat this week in the thread about speedwork and paces in training. From looking at the Boards and HH plans we post here on this thread, there’s not much speed work apart from some MP runs in the Boards plan every other week. All other runs are easy, long or recovery. The marathon is an endurance run, training for your first one is about distance and time on your feet – it's stamina, not speed. You want to be able to start and finish it and what ever time you get will be a PB – your next marathon you then have a time to chase. I know we do say trust the plan but if the plan you are following is including something you’re not too sure about, don’t be afraid to listen to your body and take your pace back or adjust the plan.

In terms of calculating training paces, I quite like the McMillan one.

Someone else mentioned a method which I found worked out quite close for me – half marathon x 2 + 20 mins. My half marathon time last year was 2:07 - so this gave me 4:35 – and my finish time was 4:38 – close enough!!

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

Sunny Dayz · 11-08-2024 9:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122486849#Comment_122486849

well done on your long run, you kept a lovely pace for most of your run. It was probably getting warm near the end of it.

Sunny Dayz · 11-08-2024 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122489901#Comment_122489901

well done and good luck with your decision on the plan. Nice easy paces this last week.

Sunny Dayz · 11-08-2024 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492032#Comment_122492032

well done on getting all your runs in on a busy week. Few early starts for you to get them in.

SimpleDimple · 11-08-2024 11:25pm

I think it’s come up already, but what do people do regarding fuelling up mid run? This week past I could really feel myself getting tired towards the end. Are gels the way to go or would even some jelly babies etc do the trick? I might try something for the race next week, but just wondering where to even start

AlmightyCushion · 12-08-2024 12:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492850#Comment_122492850

You should get some gels to try them out in a training run to make sure they agree with you. I wouldn't use them on every run though as it would get pricey. I carry a water bottle with me with a mixture of honey and water in it. It is working pretty well for me.

comanche_cor · 12-08-2024 9:03am

Last week went ok. I guess what was notable for me was:

missed 1x S&C, was a busy week outside of running and something had to give. Know that these are really important and need to be doing 2x week.
had a gastro issue during one of my mid week runs. I ran in the evening (I normally run in the morning or midday) after a day when my food choices were not great. I now know that my routine is very important.
on my longrun I found that rolling hills were a struggle, I need to incorporate these more

Overall the week went fine. I hit all my runs, distances, and paces set out for me (except one pace for tempo run into a headwind!). No runners knee this week, which is good - but I need to keep on track with S&C. Tried a gel on Sunday's long run - I can't say I noticed any impact, positive or negative! :)

Next week is a deload week for me on Runna.

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday

I do have the FK 10 mile, so looking for suggestions on how I approach this in a deload week. I see a few options (perhaps there are other):

6k easy on Fri, 16k easy FD rather than 11K
16k @ MP instead of the 6K & 11K

marathon2022 · 12-08-2024 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122492850#Comment_122492850

The tiredness you're feeling is normal during your first marathon training block. Endurance and fatigue are expected and unfortunately, no amount of fueling will eliminate this. Feeling tired during long runs is part of the process and over time your body and mind will adapt. That's what the training is for.

Start testing your fueling strategies as soon as possible. Both your pre-race fueling and hydration plans are as important, if not more so, than what you take in during the race.

From a personal perspective the following tips on pre race fueling and hydration will have you in good shape

The night before eat a clean dinner with carbs (potatoes, rice, pasta), lean protein (white meat or fish) and plenty of vegetables. No alcohol and drink plenty of water.
For breakfast have simple carbs like a bagel or wholemeal toast with jam at least an hour before running. Hydration will depend on the weather but as a starting point try drinking 250ml of water or electrolytes per 45 minutes of running. Adjust based on how you feel and the conditions

*For a 4-hour marathon, most people will need around six gels. It’s important to test your ability to take in this much during your training

Start by trying two gels on a long run- one at 45 minutes and another at 90 minutes.
A couple of weeks later try three gels.
Eventually, aim to take four gels on one of your longest runs(on a 20 miler if you have one planned)
Gels are not all the same, some will require you have water with them, I usually sip from a water bottle and sip the gel over a half a KM while running, you should use less watery brands as sticky hands are a pain the …. The hydrogels are also popular but I still find myself needing water.

For pre-race fueling, consider more advanced options like the Maurten 320 mix. It's a carb-heavy powder you mix with water and you can sip in the 30 minutes leading up to the race without discomfort.

Learning what works for you is part of the training process, good luck and enjoy.

rosenallis · 12-08-2024 10:56am

Hi all,

Great to read and see how everyone is getting on. I'm going ok. Have missed some S&C and a couple of runs last few weeks with holidays, but plan on focusing now until the Marathon. Managed to run 11M last week with long run so i'm looking forward to building on that. Every long run is the longest i've run, so that's a mini-vicory for me all the same. Not enjoying the S&C and Yoga - but i don't think i ever will!

Am interested to read the conversation on Runna. I'm following one, and it's broadly the same as a couple of others here. 2 X Speed, 1 slow run and 1 long run a week. I don't really understand what benefit the speed have, and wavering to swap one of the speed sessions for a longer run because some of the comments here, and my concern about not being able to run the distance. ( I ran a Parkrun at the weekend as fast as i could and i didn't beat a PB which i had in February when i was doing none of this training, so that dissapointed me!).

A couple of things i'm wondering about; how do we set marathon goal and pace? I had 4 in mind, but with inexperience i've no idea if this is a pipe dream and it's having knock on effect on the pace i have been set in Runna plan. e.g. 9.0Mile minutes i'm meant to run at part of the Long Run. I suppose i'm wondering what are the intermediate check ins/ goals i should have to see if i'm on track? I'd be more dissapointed in gassing out or failing trying to get 4.00 marathon than managing to run a 4.15.

On general food - should we be looking to add certain food types such as protein into diet? I've no idea what I should be eating and drinking, and i assume we should be eating certain food types?

I've a 12.4 long run on Sunday but debating the 10 race in Phoneix Park.

Many thanks

slingerz · 12-08-2024 2:56pm

the hydration and fuelling discussion is interesting to me as I think that is a big part of my fatiguing at the end of my long run. Once I ate after the one at the weekend I felt much better.

For hydration tablets are they different to the carb tablets that you mix with water? When would you typically have the hydration tablets then?

Sunny Dayz · 13-08-2024 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493455#Comment_122493455

Well done on a good week. As your plan has prescribed a deload week, I'd go with option 2. I'm not sure how much race experience you have and if you've a half marathon race booked so perhaps use this opportunity to practice race strategy and experience - the whole travelling to an event, morning time management, breakfast, taking on fuel and hydration during a race.

Sunny Dayz · 13-08-2024 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493897#Comment_122493897

Ok there's a bit to unpack in your post. You've done well to get out for runs on your holidays (and from looking at your strava I see you've been out West - a fab part of the country!)

Love the feeling of building up the long runs to "the longest I've ever run" - it's like an accomplishment each week so do take that little win!

S&C / yoga / Pilates isn't as exciting as running for most people. But rather think about what parts of the body you are using and how that will benefit your running. Think about how good the body feels to have a good stretch out. How working your quads, glutes, hamstrings, core will help you with your running form.

In terms of the Runna plan, if you feel you want to swap out a speed session for an easy run, I won't argue with you. And now isn't really the time to try race a 5km when your focus should be more about time in the legs and building up the endurance for long runs. (But well done on your parkrun!)

In terms of gesstimating a marathon goal time - have you any races run this year? Based on your recent 5km on the McMillan website it says 4hours is possible - BUT as you've said yourself you're inexperienced. Give yourself a generous finish time - 4:20/4:30 - which puts you at 6:10/6:25 mins/km for marathon pace - and see what that feels like for the next few weeks as you build up the mileage. Note long run pace then should be about 6:20-6:45 min/km. Marathon pace at this stage should be an guesttimate for seeing how the long runs fair out.

Lastly in terms of food - food = fuel. Carbohydrates (potatoes, pasta, rice, breads, cereals, fruit) are an energy source, protein (white meats, lean meats, dairy) aid in muscle recovery, fats (olive oil, eggs, nuts, fish) help with energy and hormones. Stay well hydrated with water, min 2L per day.

Sunny Dayz · 13-08-2024 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122494951#Comment_122494951

Hydration tablets are to replace the salts and electrolytes you loose when you sweat. Have you every noticed after you sweat and it dries down that you are left with a white residue? Or that your sweat tastes salty?! However sweating is individual - some are heavy sweaters and others barely glisten. It's not always an indicator of how much effort someone is putting into their run. Not being hydrated enough is a very real cause of fatigue both physical and mental and I'm someone who struggles with hydration at times. I use hydration tablets during my long run - they are not a source of energy but to replace lost salts and electrolytes as I sweat. I sometimes pop one in my glass the day before a long run if it's fairly warm (or I know I haven't been great that week with my water intake!) and sometimes in the evening after my long run if it's been a warm or humid day.

rosenallis · 13-08-2024 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122497552#Comment_122497552

Thank you for taking the time to respond, very much appreciated.

Swapping a speed session for an easy run is something I'll drop into my plan.

Races - only a 5M in Marathon Races series Corkagh run which was 44 minutes. And that wasn't far off my limit at that time to be honest.

TheRef · 13-08-2024 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122493897#Comment_122493897

I don't think anyone addressed your thinking about doing the 10miler in the Phoenix Park this weekend. I think if you can race Saturday, that would give you a great idea of where your training is at. You will need to look at your plan for the rest of this week so you are ready to race - look at how the Boards plan on post 1 changes this week for those running Frank Duffy.

If you do race, you can plug your finish time into the McMillan calculator to give a good idea of what you are looking at in the marathon.

alan10 · 13-08-2024 3:46pm

Hi folks, looking for bit advice on my training for DCM2024.

This is my first year actually having a “training plan”. Previous Marathons were just ~ 10 weeks beforehand starting doing 2-3 runs during week (10Km to 15Km marathon pace~ 4:40/Km) and long run at weekend (21Km up to max 34Km marathon pace ~4:40Km). Nothing formal or structured - I never looked heart rate, intervals, slow runs, fartlek etc… Also did 2-3 strength sessions per week.

This year I’m doing 1-2 strength per week but using the “Garmin Marathon Intermediate ” plan, 5 session per week 16 weeks (I’m on week 6) and its all HR zone based. It’s a full mindset shift trying to get my head to focus HR instead of time and distance!

Male: 43

Weight: 78Kg

2019 DCM: 3:21

2022 DCM: 3:38

2023 DCM: 3:28

2024 March Bohermeen Half: 1:34

2024 July Clontarf Half: 1:39

My watch has my Max HR177 (resting ~47) so…

	Low limit	High limit	% in Zones
Z1	88.5	106.2	50-60
Z2	106.2	123.9	60-70
Z3	123.9	141.6	70-80
Z4	141.6	159.3	80-90
Z5	159.3	177	90-100

My interval training tells me to use Z4 and the easy/recovery and LSR runs are all Z2.

Questions

LSR’s: I did two 2hr:15min runs so far and one 1hr:15 min run so far and they are torture. I have to slow down to 6:33/Km – 6:45/Km to stay in Zone2 range – is this normal? My watch estimated distance 26Km for 2hr:15mins but I only got 20.5Km done in the specified time – so am I too slow? Go any faster and I’m into Z3?
The interval seem OK, about 4:20/Km then rest/recover etc… and repeat
So how do I predict a marathon time for the day? Or what pace do I go at? The plan says “Run in Zone3” and good luck! 😊

Appreciate any feedback and suggestions from the many knowledgeable folks here, especially #3 above. Was getting lost in all the posts and to be honest all this (and my overthinking?) is taking the fun out of running a bit. Was half tempted to go back to my previous way…or is it “trust the process”?

I guess if I had some idea of what time to expect on race day would reassure.

Thanks

comanche_cor · 13-08-2024 6:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498953#Comment_122498953

Hi,

By no means an expert on this but have looked at this previously as part of base training. Am sure others here will have far more experience or advice.

How were the zones above calculated? Different calculators give different results based on different methodologies. Read this article and you will see some of the different methodologies https://www.bergfreunde.eu/heart-rate-calculator/

For me, I find that this calculator matches what I work to at the moment: https://runningversity.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/?srsltid=AfmBOooogvaUTL9qphY2VvkxPF4gXjYfDpRMl8waHt9cgTLIOebJt6m0#heart-rate-zone-calculator

Is it possible that some of the measurements are wrong in your case?

Trampas · 13-08-2024 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498953#Comment_122498953

I think you need to change the % on the zone range as they’re default. Even a quick google might give you a better % range than the hard 10% garmin use. Maybe start there

AlmightyCushion · 13-08-2024 10:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122498953#Comment_122498953

Your zones look way off. Also your max heart rate is probably off as well. It looks like Garmin is just using the 220 - your age to get your max heart rate. You max heart rate could be higher. I'm nearly 38 and my max heart rate is about 190. 220 - 38 would say it is only 182.

Also, you should use heart rate reserve for your zones as it is meant to be much better. It uses your max and resting heart rate to determine your zones. Even setting your max at 177 which could be wrong it says your zone 2 is 126 - 138. Definitely find out what your max heart rate actually is and set your zones based on HRR.

https://runningversity.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/

2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

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