Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

1…806807809811812…816

Comments

  • #24242
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499266#Comment_122499266

    Yep. There are so many people looking for places that if your rental is in an average or good area of Dublin, you wouldnt need to go near advertising it to rent it out.



  • #24243
    extra-ordinary_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122491472#Comment_122491472

    TL:DR - This is a graph of new rentals or newly reported rentals?



  • #24244
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499560#Comment_122499560

    It would make sense to assume it's some combination of both



  • #24245
    extra-ordinary_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500060#Comment_122500060

    It would make equal sense to assume it's the latter rather than the former.

    Anyone who's looking at the lower end of the market (as I am) will have noticed the uptick in ex-rentals coming onto the market in the last 12 months. Have a look yourself at houses for sale in Dublin in the 250k-400k range and see how many ex-rentals there are.



  • #24246
    J_1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭J_1980


    https://www.newsweek.com/javier-milei-rent-control-argentina-us-election-kamala-harris-housing-affordability-1938127


    goventment intervention is always the main problem….



  • Advertisement
  • #24247
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500514#Comment_122500514

    If there is an uptick in supply in the price range you're looking for, which is presumably same as most FTBers, surely at least that's pretty good news from your point of view?



  • #24248
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭tigger123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500779#Comment_122500779

    The Argentianian economy is no template to be following.



  • #24249
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,515 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The latest CSO Residential Property Price Index figures for June are out.

    Key Findings

    • The national Residential Property Price Index (RPPI) increased by 8.6% in the 12 months to June 2024, with prices in Dublin rising by 9.3% and prices outside Dublin up by 8.2%.
    • In June 2024, 3,563 dwelling purchases by households at market prices were filed with the Revenue Commissioners, down by 11.5% when compared with the 4,025 purchases in June 2023.
    • The median price of a dwelling purchased in the 12 months to June 2024 was €337,500.
    • The lowest median price for a dwelling in the 12 months to June 2024 was €169,000 in Longford, while the highest median price was €630,000 in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

    Commenting on the release, Niall Corkery, Statistician in the Prices Division, said: “Residential property prices rose by 8.6% in the 12 months to June 2024, up from 8.5% in the year to May 2024. In Dublin, residential property prices saw an increase of 9.3%, while property prices outside Dublin were 8.2% higher in June 2024 when compared with a year earlier.

    Property Prices by Type and Region

    In the 12 months to June 2024, house prices in Dublin rose by 10.0% while apartment prices increased by 6.6%. The highest house price growth in Dublin was in Dublin City at 11.7% while Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown saw a rise of 8.5%.

    Outside Dublin, house prices were up by 8.0% and apartment prices increased by 10.0%. The region outside of Dublin that saw the largest rise in house prices was the Mid-West (Clare, Limerick, and Tipperary) at 12.0%, while at the other end of the scale, the South-East (Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, and Wexford) saw a 5.6% rise.

    In June 2024, 3,563 dwelling purchases by households at market prices were filed with the Revenue Commissioners, a decrease of 11.5% when compared with the 4,025 purchases in June 2023.

    Households paid a median or mid-point price of €337,500 for a residential property in the 12 months to June 2024. The lowest median price paid for a dwelling was €169,000 in Longford, while the highest was €630,000 in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown.

    The most expensive Eircode area over the 12 months to June 2024 was D06 'Dublin 6' with a median price of €773,000, while F45 'Castlerea' had the least expensive price of €139,000.” 

    Residential Property Price Index June 2024 - Central Statistics Office



  • #24250
    gaming_needs90
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭gaming_needs90


    The market is as awful as ever unfortunately. Its extremely bleak in Clare and the prices are astronomical.



  • #24251
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500779#Comment_122500779

    Interesting, but it could be apples and oranges. Supply is low here because there are too many people here. I don't mean to be so blunt, and I'm not making a judgement one way or the other, but that's just an objective truth. Is the same true in Argentina?

    On the matter of rent controls in general, they don't work. Supply and demand will always set the price, and the state cannot pass laws to make this different. History is littered with examples of this, and it never has worked. If a commodity is in short supply, the price will rise. If it is in abundance, then the price will fall. One cannot pass a law to prevent this anymore than they can prevent leaves falling off trees in September.



  • Advertisement
  • #24252
    extra-ordinary_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500969#Comment_122500969

    Yes, good for buyers, not so good for renters, although an increase in ex-rentals may still be a decrease over all.



  • #24253
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501690#Comment_122501690

    Sure it's bad news for individual tenants if they're evicted to facilitate a sale, but it is not necessarily bad news for the rental supply as a whole.

    Buyers and renters don't exist in entirely different ecosystems. Most of the ex-rentals will be bought by FTBers who are vacating a rental, or by landlords who retain the property as a rental. Rental supply will stay broadly similiar.

    Irrespective of any uptick in the number of ex-rentals on the market now, it is a tiny % of tenancies, and it is normal to expect that at any given time LLs will turnover stock.

    There is simply no data to suggest a catastrophic decline in rental supply due to a mass exodus of LLs leaving the market.



  • #24254
    Villa05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501680#Comment_122501680

    If we had as much emphasis on supply controls as we have on rent controls, we might make some progress

    Either way it will never be fixed under FFG as price must be protected at all costs. They will feel that this view is reinforced by the outcome of local elections



  • #24255
    Villa05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭Villa05


    @gaming_needs90

    Easier win an all ireland hurling final than get a home :-)

    Kerry was identified as one of the most unaffordable regions in the country.

    Rural Cork, Clare and Kerry were the ghost estate capitals of the last bubble. A mature approach to short term lets would go along way to fixing issues in these areas



  • #24256
    Dav010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,669 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502191#Comment_122502191

    What are supply controls?



  • #24257
    Villa05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,662 ✭✭✭Villa05


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502235#Comment_122502235

    Our planning system



  • #24258
    extra-ordinary_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501863#Comment_122501863

    Sure it's bad news for individual tenants if they're evicted to facilitate a sale, but it is not necessarily bad news for the rental supply as a whole.

    Buyers and renters don't exist in entirely different ecosystems. Most of the ex-rentals will be bought by FTBers who are vacating a rental, or by landlords who retain the property as a rental. Rental supply will stay broadly similiar.

    How can any of this be true? Rental properties being bought by FTBs will decrease the rental stock, you're surely not arguing otherwise?



  • #24259
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502451#Comment_122502451

    If a rental is bought by an Ftb owner ocuppier yes it reduces the rental stock by one.

    But if the buyer is vacating a rental it also reduces rental demand by one.

    Hence there is no catastrophic impact on rental supply.

    None of this happens in a vacuum. LLs move in and out of the market, owner occupiers move in and out of the market, people trade up, down, sideways.

    It's called turnover and is a necessary part of a functioning market.

    Current figures do not suggest anything other than normal turnover of LLs.

    Certainly not a mass exodus.



  • #24260
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501690#Comment_122501690

    A headhunter today was asking me if I would relocate to Dublin (lived there prior to Covid) and I reckon that I would have to budget €2,500 to get an apartment in the city. I'm amazed renters in Dublin are not an endangered species..



  • #24261
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502516#Comment_122502516

    But owner occupied house have a lower housing density compared to rented property. So a rented property sold to an owner occupied reduces the housing. Obviously it's great for first time buyers but it's bad for anyone renting as it reduces supply. They are not one to one. It's been discussed countless times on the forum. And remember we have lack of rental accommodation so any sale that reduces this supply is a problem for renters. For FTB it's obviously good as it adds supply to a tight market.



  • Advertisement
  • #24262
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502191#Comment_122502191

    If we had a lot of things, it would be different. However, when we have a "society" replete with hyper individuals, we get what we have now. You are correct that it will never be fixed under FF/FG, but it would not be fixed under SF, Labour or any other party currently in place. The housing crisis is a symptom of a systemic problem that affects every western country. Voting in another collection of bought and sold suits will not change that.



  • #24263
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502522#Comment_122502522

    I think its generally couples or people sharing, so more affordable then.

    But nevertheless, prices are crazy alright.

    Is the sharing thing applicable to single, social welfare tenants?



  • #24264
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501680#Comment_122501680

    How would we define too many people living here? Could it not equally be the case that there just arent enough homes?

    I wouldnt have thought the population density of ireland is very high at all, even by european standards.



  • #24265
    Grassy Knoll
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Agree 2.5k is a lot to be paying each month. However,it would be interesting to see how much HAP is underpinning Dublin rents. Very often it is folks working in lower paid jobs who are in receipt of support. This in turn IMHO contributes towards setting a rental floor.



  • #24266
    Grassy Knoll
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Agree 2.5k is a lot to be paying each month. However,it would be interesting to see how much HAP is underpinning Dublin rents. Very often it is folks working in lower paid jobs who are in receipt of support. This in turn IMHO contributes towards setting a rental floor.



  • #24267
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502679#Comment_122502679

    They're not mutually exclusive.

    The population density is not high, you are correct. However, it's a matter of what resources and services are available. People cannot live in empty fields, they cannot be treated in hospitals that do not exist, they cannot travel on roads that have never been built and they cannot be educated in schools that are not there.

    Could all these things change? Yes, but it would take time and resources to change this, and neither of those things are infinite. If the current level of available services do not meet the demands placed upon them, which at least with housing they clearly do not, it may be said that demand is exceeding supply; ergo there are too many people.



  • #24268
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502636#Comment_122502636

    Leaving aside the the fact that lower average household size is supposedly a good thing we are striving for, fine, if the argument is any sale by a LL is a bad thing, then obviously some sales are taking place, and to many that is a bad thing.

    IMO we need more turnover of stock, not less, and if that causes issues for individual renters so be it. Banning LLs from selling with vacant possession would cause more problems than it solves.

    So there are definitely sales by LLs taking place. I am not disputing that. The point I was making is there is no data to support the theory of a mass exodus of LLs taking place.



  • #24269
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502744#Comment_122502744

    Yes, I understand your point.

    I think the caveat is that there are too many people for the available infrastucture, rather than simply, "too many people."

    We do indeed have a long way to go for infrastructure to catch up.

    Metrolink looks to be delayed again; a current example.



  • #24270
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502664#Comment_122502664

    For arguments sake I assumed nose-bleed 50% of earnings going on rent but even that would require a salary of €93,000. Think even the MNCs would balk at that.

    Prefer not to think about what the equivalent market rate of social welfare is.



  • Advertisement
  • #24271
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502862#Comment_122502862

    Not so much the social welfare rate, but the management of assets. If a local council rents 5 x 2 bed apartments in Clontarf, would they be used to house 5 x single folks with no dependants or 10 x single folks with no dependants, in the latter case, the 10 strangers are sharing.



Advertisement