(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

ancapailldorcha · 14-08-2024 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500701#Comment_122500701

The depths to which you're prepared to go to to defend murderers is a perfect example of what puts people off this place now.

Jequ0n · 14-08-2024 9:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500947#Comment_122500947

Nobody is arguing to have abuse of other communities permitted. On the contrary, people have argued that abusive language should be banned for all groups, and not permitted for individual groups that some people deem “deserving” of such. The posts about poisoning rats and “dumb fuks” are still visible on thread despite at least one mod being aware of them. You can’t possibly think that this sort of language should be permitted on a public discussion board?

Apothic_Red · 14-08-2024 9:09am

As a sporadic user of Boards down the years I am surprised at the amount of discussion time that is spent on moderation.

It often seems that users spend longer discussing the moderators decision rather than the original talking points.

I'm an avid poster on certain sub-reddits & discord forums where I've never encountered or heard mention of a moderator.

odyssey06 · 14-08-2024 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501051#Comment_122501051

Boards has a feedback forum, a visible DRP process.

What do you think would happen on the sub-reddits or discord if someone started openly challenging moderators decisions?

From my experience elsewhere - they'd be ejected from them in short order never to be seen again.

Vote4Squirrels · 14-08-2024 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499824#Comment_122499824

Apologies for choosing your post Furze99 but there was a line in there that demonstrates what I wanted to say. You note there "long standing and valuable posters" being given perhaps a temporary thread ban whereas anyone relatively new would face a permanent ban. I still believe it was unfair I went from 5 warning points (applied as 1-2-2 and the last two for the same point, which wasn't what it was accused to be) to a full two week ban with nothing in between!

This is an issue that's been seen once or twice, an older established poster is given a lot more leeway - one especially trolly poster was finally banned from a thread only to be allowed to come back.

Yes, i appreciate that it is good when discussions happen - as I noted yesterday, very glad to talk to @Beasty to clarify my post and have a warning removed, this discussion is invaluable. But surely the ACTION should decide the punishment, not the longevity of the poster ? Indeed, shouldn't those with posts in the high four figures know better ?

Sure I was not here five minutes before a poster decided that because another poster registered on the same date that we must be the same person and absolutely hounded me!! They are still posting without sanction - on this very thread!

To echo my closing of yesterday - clear rules, clear definitions "Trolling 101" as you were, and rules applied to all fairly.

Cheers for the time all!

Vote4Squirrels · 14-08-2024 9:25am

Also re "thanking" horrible posts - I've read other comments and agree, it's not workable, best to use the Moderators' valuable time to deal with the posts themselves.

To be honest most of us dealt with bullies in school, or as adults and we know the type - the bully themselves will make the snide comment, or have the dig - and the spineless cronies will snigger in the background but not have the liathrodi to actually DO anything.

People who thank abusive posts are the digital equivalent of these craven cowards - leave the thanks there so everyone can actually see what they are like.

Apothic_Red · 14-08-2024 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501085#Comment_122501085

Exactly my point, a visible DRP process invites criticism of the moderators & questions their authority.

It may seem noble but just takes up useless time imho.

Some Discord & sub-reddits I'm on have little or no moderator presence, stops the running to mummy mentality

SafeSurfer · 14-08-2024 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500947#Comment_122500947

Nobody is “going to bat” for illegal invaders or defending the heinous war crimes committed by Russians or anyone else.
Just advocating for clear guidelines on use of speech considered dehumanising, hateful etc. War crimes, atrocities should of course be condemned but just yesterday posters in the Russian invasion of Ukraine thread are openly calling for war crimes.

eightieschewbaccy · 14-08-2024 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501254#Comment_122501254

The terminology is in reference to the soldiers or mercenaries. Would you have been objecting to the terms used during WW2? Jerries, Krauts, Doryphores etc. It's just what tends to happen with invading forces, shockingly. And in relation to war crimes, those posters are generally being called out on it.

ancapailldorcha · 14-08-2024 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501337#Comment_122501337

"Orcs" doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's clearly a term of derision for the scum raping and killing in their quest to eradicate a sovereign state. It's pure gaslighting to pretend that it's a term encouraging the slaughter or regular Russians.

Backstreet Moyes · 14-08-2024 10:40am

Their have been a few good suggestions, it would be nice if a list was put together and if they were discussed, but I fear we will get the usual we are going to take this feedback away and nothing changes.

Suggestion

Put more Mods in Current Affairs, Beasty has stated he was away for awhile and he is absolutely entitled to be, that means one person has been looking after the busiest forum, what if that person goes away on a holiday, is current affairs mod free?

All we hear is how difficult it is to appoint Mods, their have been no new Mods in years, I find it difficult to believe not one person has been interested.

Suggestion

Dispute Resolution is mostly filled with complaints from Current Affairs.

The Cmod cannot be neutral whether they try or not, the poster is visibly very left leaning and is not suitable for the job.

Then you see threads where it takes a week or two to be resolved.

Why can't Mods from other forums be appointed who have no bias and it will speed up the process.

Suggestion

When a poster makes blanket statements about a whole thread to get a reaction then they should be warned and banned for continuing to do so.

Suggestion

If a poster has form for going around threads with Walter mitty type anecdotes then they should be actioned.

They have a friend or family member to push their agenda for all situations.

Suggestion

If someone has form for going into threads and making comments like boards is full of middle aged angry men they are on a wind up and should be actioned.

Suggestion

Anyone deliberately promoting hateful, antisemitic, racist or other deplorable behaviour should be site banned.

Suggestion

Make Current Affairs like the soccer forum where you need a certain amount of posts to post and need to request access.

Suggestion

Anyone using childish phrases like mary poo, mehole or grift for example should be dealt with.

Suggestion

Posters who spend their days playing victim and causing arguments should be dealt with.

Suggestion

Anyone accusing others of being a rereg should be actioned.

It is frustrating when it's deliberate, it's driving new users away where guidance on improving their posting will help retain new genuine users.

OscarMIlde · 14-08-2024 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501254#Comment_122501254

Not being involved in the Russian threads, some of this may be due to reading the post in the context of past posts throughout the thread. If a poster handwaves away or denies reports of Russian atrocities against civilians than their concern for Russian casualties can be interpreted in an ahem slightly less sincere vein.

Similarly if terms like Orcs or gammon cause arguments than perhaps mods are better off adding them to a list of banned terms pinned to start of thread just to avoid dealing with spats. That would be up to the forum I guess, but perhaps that could be requested in feedback.

Tell me how · 14-08-2024 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501401#Comment_122501401

Most of these would lead to increased need for moderation. The one thing the site is struggling massively to provide as is. A lot of them are already guidelines in the various charters.

Also, removing mods because of perceived bias is a slippery slope. If the precedent is set, then the accusation of bias will be used daily to try to initiate a change. I would personally prefer if biased mods recused themselves from particular forums and offered their services elsewhere, but if they don't I'd hope a more fit for purpose Dispute Resolution Process would either vindicate them or provide evidence that they should step aside.

There has in the last year or so been a very blatant rereg who has been very active and very vocal on various threads. They have disappeared and then a new account appears after a short time and then effectively continue the same discussions with the same viewpoints and the same intensenity, but with a new username. They haven't denied being a rereg, but have justified it in their own way. I feel calling posters out as such should be allowed, they are trying to be involved and influence the conversation, but to not stand by their presumed identity in doing so. I feel this is intentional and unfair.

Maybe if Vanilla facilitated a sabbatical option where you could put your account on hiatus, but not access it for 1 month, 3, 6 or 12 months, such users could have their detox period but still use the same name when they want to get involved again.

OscarMIlde · 14-08-2024 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501401#Comment_122501401

I didn't realise there was only one mod running current affairs at the moment. That's a huge task and I don't blame them for being fed up. It's an unpaid position and they have their job and outside life to deal with as well.

To be fair regarding what they do moderate, I think when people are thread banned or sanctioned it's generally for good reason. I just feel there is a bias in the frequency of which group get sanctioned. I don't know whether that is due to bias in what is regarded as actionable or due to bias in what is reported.

ancapailldorcha · 14-08-2024 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501531#Comment_122501531

The thing about calling out reregs is that it's both very close to being uncivil and a potential infringement of one's rights under GDPR. I'm not a legal expert but the spirit of it in a place like this is a way to move on from an old account. Of course, the potential for abuse is patently obvious. I'm a proponent of most of the current system of report and let the mods and admins investigate.

The bias thing is an obvious red herring. Take soccer for instance. Do you know many people who love soccer who are objective and don't follow one team or another? No. Of course you don't. Same for Politics and any other contentious subject. The DRP is perfectly functional as far as I can tell. The reasoning for decisions is always given and there is always the recourse to an admin.

It's always been odd to me that some people have this grossly inflated of self-importance which leads them to think that there are efforts behind the scenes to remove them. Ironically, there's one such attempt to remove someone they don't like above. More projection, I suppose.

People need to take sites like this and social media much less seriously and consume it in moderation. The paranoia is not healthy.

Tell me how · 14-08-2024 11:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501556#Comment_122501556

The DRP is perfectly functional as far as I can tell.

Not my experience. I messaged 2 Cmods about a thread ban. Neither responded in any form. Original Mod told me that was nothing to do with them and so my attempt at resolving the issue died there and I'm still thread banned. A single piece of anecdotal evidence you might say, but I've more and others are also saying the same thing. I agree with you about dealing with Bias, but the system should be designed to remove its influence rather than justify it.

Social media is part of the public discourse now, that's a fact. As a society we interact less and less with people in real life than we (or our ancestors) did in the past. And platforms are used to influence public discourse in various ways (Elon Musk buying Twitter for example). None of which is a surprise, wealthy influences did this (and continue to do it) with print and broadcast media. And their actions, and the outcomes impact us all in various ways. Some of it not so good.

I'm interested in Current Affairs, and enjoy discussing them, but on this thread, and the previous one, I've lamented the fun element of Boards that made me enjoy coming here in the first place. I would love to see trending conversations being less contentious and more inviting, that is absolutely what I am trying to promote in my involvement here. But we can't ignore the more intense conversations either, just find a way so they don't infect the rest of the site as they have been doing.

bucketybuck · 14-08-2024 12:25pm

The DRP is perfectly functional as far as I can tell.

Thats just **** hilarious.

To illustrate, this is an example from a current thread in DRP.

Opened by the OP on 8th July requesting a 48hr ban be overturned. Category mod asks forum mod to review.
Radio silence for a month.
5th August an admin says they'll take a look, 6th August the OP sends the PM's to him.

And as of today the 14th August thats it, nothing else, no more response. How is a poster supposed to respect that process?

Not only has the DRP always been an infantilising load of nonsense, now it has fully become a waste of time, mods don't respond, admins don't respond, its a complete joke.

MisterAnarchy · 14-08-2024 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501556#Comment_122501556

The bias thing is an obvious red herring. Take soccer for instance. Do you know many people who love soccer who are objective and don't follow one team or another? No. Of course you don't. Same for Politics and any other contentious subject. The DRP is perfectly functional as far as I can tell. The reasoning for decisions is always given and there is always the recourse to an admin.

Well people in the soccer forum generally dont go around calling other teams players or staff vile and derogatory names.

They also dont call rival supporters names, say they are racist, fascist, scum, retarded, braindead etc etc.

Its actually extremely civilised in comparison to parts of Current Affairs.

Necro · 14-08-2024 12:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501881#Comment_122501881

Eh… they absolutely did! It's why we (now) have specific rules prohibiting it. Whiskey Nose used to be one (Ferguson). Or Fat Spanish waiter (Benitez). Players, managers, referees, opposing fans - they've all got both barrels at some point in time.

Arghus · 14-08-2024 12:45pm

Soccer forum is one of the most civilised popular forums on the site.

Flaneur OBrien · 14-08-2024 12:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501881#Comment_122501881

I mean, a big difference is the likes of Liverpool, United etc, don't actually have a fascist or a racist running their club.

Football TEAMS are also supported, not the men that own them.

Of course it's more civilised that CA.

Football doesn't really affect people lives to the same level that say, banning books is, or banning medication, or just general interfering with people's lives.

Necro · 14-08-2024 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501910#Comment_122501910

Yeah it is now in fairness. It wasn't always though. The soccer charter is also one of the most in-depth and complex pieces of literature on the site… it's not a coincidence that it's now a much easier place to post than it used to be.

Oscar_Madison · 14-08-2024 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501817#Comment_122501817

Don’t think I’ve seen on ban or warning overturned - it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time.
Why not make it simpler with implementing some of the following:

1. A LOT more general on thread warnings to all - visibility of mods is key for keeping posters in line and for calling out things not acceptable on a thread

2. 24 hour bans from threads - no arguement no appeal no pm - it’s over it’s done with and the move on

3. 1 week bans from threads then 1 month the perma ban

Arghus · 14-08-2024 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501961#Comment_122501961

Ah yeah, I take your point.

Also with the changeover to vanilla, a lot of people left the forum and the way it's formatted now - another crap aspect of vanilla to add to the reams of other tiny worse aspects - means that only the first couple of threads have visibility when you click in, so only the long running club specific tend to survive and thrive. The days of match specific threads are long gone. There's less mixing and matching between rival fans in threads nowadays.

And as for Flaneur's point:

"Football doesn't really affect people lives to the same level that say, banning books is, or banning medication, or just general interfering with people's lives."

You are, in one sense, completely right, but, there's a fair amount of people out there on the Internet for whom their supported football team is the biggest thing in their lives and arguments about such things can get as bitter and unhinged as anything you'd see anywhere.

ancapailldorcha · 14-08-2024 1:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501637#Comment_122501637

On your first point, that's more of a lack of personnel issue. I'm not dismissing your point. We both know that there's a shortage.

Tell me how · 14-08-2024 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501910#Comment_122501910

Literally because it was hidden from view and specific requests to access have to be made.

A lot of the conversation we've had on here about CA was had about the Soccer forum a couple of years ago.

MisterAnarchy · 14-08-2024 1:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501937#Comment_122501937

I guess you never heard of this quote

"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that."

Football doesn't really affect people lives to the same level that say, banning books is, or banning medication, or just general interfering with people's lives

Last time I checked Ireland wasnt one of the 50 States of the US.

JP Liz V1 · 14-08-2024 1:09pm

I think @Necro should be the main man over CA/IMHO

Necro · 14-08-2024 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501992#Comment_122501992

Yeah football is akin to religion to some.

odyssey06 · 14-08-2024 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502007#Comment_122502007

I think what Soccer has done makes sense for them.
I imagine there was a spike in mod workload while things were toughened up, then it calmed down.

I don't think it is direct transferrable though to CA which is one of the main forums brought up here.

e.g. the Man Utd thread on Soccer is in some respects a safe space for Man Utd fans to discuss their team.
On CA we have posters who want to e.g. discuss their concerns about say Trump, or Israel's conduct.
I don't think we'd want to get into the place of having a 'safe space' thread for one side versus another of those discussions.

(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

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