Should Education be privatised?

No

That's what I was saying however you put it much more eloquently!

You call a publicly funded education system socialism? What do people who can't afford a private school do?

That's easily said. I have the figures in front of me. Google education spend per student by country. It's all there. But if you say it's untrue then it must be untrue.

What happens when people cannot afford housing or rent? Doesn't seem to bother us as a society when the most basic need of a person (shelter) is the issue.

And that has what to do with funding education.

Firstly you're still comparing to GDP. Secondly if you actually read the OECD report the newspaper refers to you'll see spend per student is, more or less, at the average figure. . And, as said, spend as % of total government expenditure is in the top 6. A World Economic Forum report confirms all this.

You're using one matrix to suit your narrative and it's the least meaningful of the measures employed.

Thinly veiled "we should have a wasteful mega-quango to build houses" thread.

The government also doesn't build the schools, so the analogy is flawed, as well as the persistent use of GDP because it doesn't suit the narrative to use reality based figures.

Ireland should build more houses, the planning system needs to be overhauled to allow this to happen. Putting the government in charge of builders would be a big giant disaster.

Using GDP as a denominator in any ratio is meaningless in Ireland, as GDP is massively inflated due to MNC activities.

This is well known.

We do not underfund education.

We have 3,000+ national schools, way more than other countries would have. There is massive duplication and waste. A rural parish in county Sligo has 3 or 4 small national schools.

That means 4x overheads, 4x principal salaries, 4x pensions, etc.

We spread the funding too thinly, as there are too many schools.

A typical teachers pension, in payment now, is 700+ per week. Is that too low?

We have introduced taxpayer-financed textbooks, and now taxpayer-financed hot food. These are examples of the massive increases in public spending that have occurred over the last five years.

You display your own ignorance by using GDP as the denominator.

The market is working well there, (food) It always has. Competition does keep prices down in this case.

On the same token, it's arguably never been easier to get a third level education. So many options for "part-time" or online courses which lead to valid and recognized degrees. The constant push (albeit a slow one) of the national broadband plan means that most people can do online courses from home, with a handful of days in a college for exams or labs. I did this myself with my masters. Which was also subsidized for IT skills.

Couple this with the recent push by the education system to encourage more online resources, establishing a pattern that can be used later in life for learning virtually anything (I've been doing DIY around my house by watching youtube videos and reading guides) means that education is there if people want it.

HOWEVER this does raise one thing that is worth noting, which is a recognised dismissal by many in society of how valuable an education is. You see it when immigrants come into the country. They push their kids hard to get an opportunity that they didn't have usually. Its a shame there are so many home grown folks who see school as a waste of time, especially in latter years when specialising is an option, and they make little to no career progress for themselves later in life and often blame the government for not providing for them, when they indeed had the option.

To the OP's suggestion of making all schools private/fee paying: absolutely not. And to go a step further - any current fee paying schools should not be in receipt of any monies from the state as they currently do.

If the schools aren't good enough, the solution is to get the state to improve them, not to privatise them fully.

Absolute madness this suggestion.

From a practical perspective, this would mean about 90% of the private schools becoming public schools and the remaining 10% becoming elite high-cost schools (similar to Nord Anglia, 30,000+ per year). Private schools cost about 4-7000 per pupil per year so the exchequer would need to be ready to fill that gap.

I'm not sure myself if that is a good or bad thing (or where that money comes from).

Because it's too important an activity to leave to the private sector. I'd be arguing for less privatisation of lots of areas though, not more.

Privatizing schools would have a very predictable outcome - segregation of class, quickly becoming apparent also as segregation of race and religion. When all the well off families send their kids to the few good schools, you will see every other school neglected.

Though it is sure to make teaching yet another for profit industry to satisfy corporate investors.

There are 2 issues, I feel behind the teacher shortage:

1. Cost of living crisis - Teaching, especially at the early career, is precisely on that precipice where they earn enough to live and not enough to have a life, and can easily emigrate or switch to different careers even simple ones that offer more work and more pay. We're pumping out teachers to see them go out the door or work other jobs, kicker is those are the ambitious smart ones that adapted.
2. Teacher compensation - Teachers should be able to have a proper demanding job that is met with a proper pay. But first and foremost for that to happen we need accountability, responsibility, and performance out of teachers. They should be working 35+ hour weeks , studying , be tested and be fired for bad performance. As we are in any reputable industry. I think there are too many chancers in there, and I can sympathize with the others who do take their job seriously.

So is this thread actually about education, or is it a about housing, dressed up to look like its about education?

Why stop there privatise privatising privatisation.

I wouldn't really call the Irish private school system as elite, lots of fully public schools have better outcomes for pupils (was in public schools myself). It's not really comparable to the English prep school system. I can't really see it being done in a way that doesn't require large tax increases to fund and you could argue that it's a good way to "tax the rich".

Honestly, the best schools are those that have the most parent engagement, public or private.