Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

20 years ago there was no social media, Internet access and use was pretty limited. Barely a mobile. 2 billion less people on the earth. Probably half the air traffic there is today.

Or put simply, a different world to the one we live in today. Anyone using the history books to apply policy in the present is..

I'm curious as to what the long term plan in general is.

We are setting records in population growth, while services and housing are becoming an almost cut throat exercise for access.

This cannot continue for too long before it breaks.

Surely the government can see that this is going to lead to exceptional damage to social cohesion. They are not that thick.

The current tactic of calling people far right or racists, bigots, etc does not change the fact that people are getting increasingly frustrated and angry with what is happening. Such a type of argument only serves to stroke the ego of the one making it. It does nothing to address what is becoming an potentially very dangerous situation.

And I am not talking about about the recent disturbances in coolock or newtown mountkennedy, they are small fry compared to what is building at the moment.

The old left is gone.

Whatever is claiming to be the left now appears to be some sort of feel good shallow ideology that looks like it was dreamt up by some marketing firm somewhere.

It has been successfully used as cover for western governments to embark on highly business orientated views on society, where profit and economy are all and the people come a distant second - viewed as little more than economic units, dispensible if not required as a better value unit becomes available.

You seemed to have missed Slide 23 from that link.

The windfall tax from the FDI sector has been both a blessing and a curse. I don't think most people realize how dependent we have become on this money and just how fcuked we'd be if/when it stops rolling in.

The problem is it has allowed to Government to absolve themselves from engaging in any kind of long-term strategic planning for any number of issues - including immigration. They are just fcuking money at the problems and kicking the can down the road.

Instead of these billions being used to invest in our infrastructure and our future they are being pissed away making a small cohort of people very rich while doing nothing to solve the underlying issues.

It's galling to see such waste being presided over.

I didn’t miss it, it’s just not saying much other than in recent years (post-Covid during which movement was restricted), the detection rates of HIV among immigrants is higher than the native population. One of the reasons for that is that HIV rates across all of Europe have risen significantly since 2022, but still we come back to your original point about higher rates of HIV among immigrant populations based upon region.

If the rates of HIV among a population are based upon region, the rate of infection is about 90% of those with HIV are natives of any given region -

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/HIV-AIDS_surveillance_in_Europe_2023_%28_2022_data_%29_0.pdf

If I wanted to engage in statistical figure fudging, I could, and I’d be able to write articles focusing on HIV rates among immigrant populations as though the native population didn’t exist, but that wouldn’t be at all helpful because it would leave people with the impression they already hold that the rise in incidents of HIV are due to increasing immigration. Articles like this, containing factual but misleading statements like this:

Only 10 per cent of those diagnosed with HIV in Ireland last year were Irish, the lowest proportion of any country apart from Iceland. Twenty per cent were from eastern and central Europe, 22 per cent from sub-Saharan Africa and 25 per cent from Latin America and the Caribbean.

https://archive.ph/9szMQ

Your original point about the rates of HIV and other diseases among the immigrant population is valid (and that’s acknowledging that you distinguish between immigrants from wealthy nations and developing nations), but when it comes to the provision of healthcare, education and so on, immigrants even from poverty stricken nations (which might indicate the reason for asylum seekers applying for refugee status in Ireland), are not putting any greater pressure on healthcare, education or other public services. They are far more unlikely than the native population to be able to avail of those public services in the first place.

I DO get the point you were making, but it’s just not a legitimate point. It’s no different to the point another poster made earlier about doubling the populations of cities outside of Dublin by 2040 and suggesting that UHL wouldn’t be able to cope if the population of Limerick City doubles to 200,000… ignoring the fact that UHL already serves a population of over 400,000, and most of that population are Irish, not immigrants.

The post I linked to was showing the rate of HIV diagnosed people who are resident in Ireland. They then broke it down based on where these people originated from. The rate of HIV diagnosed people in Ireland who are of Irish origin is 2.6 per 100,000. The rate of HIV diagnosed people in Ireland who are of non-Irish origin is 66 per 100,000. That is a massive disparity and these people need treatment. If they don't personally seek treatment it is a personal tragedy for them as well as being a public health concern. And if they don't interact with the Health Service for treatment of their HIV, they will eventually end up interacting with the Health service from complications of untreated HIV whether it is opportunistic infections, severe immune dysregulation or cancer. And none of these complications are in any way cheap to treat.

I am not saying this to vilify people coming here whether they are seeking asylum or legal foreign nationals. But to plan and allow for a properly functioning health system these realities need to be acknowledged and it is simply wrong to state that asylum seekers cost the Health service less than native Irish people.

As regards to this point:

'immigrants even from poverty stricken nations (which might indicate the reason for asylum seekers applying for refugee status in Ireland).' Poverty in itself is not a valid region for seeking asylum, particularly with all the supports and services which are provided to asylum seekers relative to regular immigration. I'd love to live in a kumbaya world where we could help everyone but we don't, and we don't have the resources to cope with the influx of people entering Ireland and then seeking asylum. Government figures indicate that the vast majority of them are not genuine asylum seekers. Government efforts should be on identifying and deporting bogus asylum seekers and policies of deterrence to dissuade further bogus asylum seekers. The Dept. of Integration can continue to identify legal refugees abroad (often people who have spent years living in refugee camps) and bring them to Ireland in line with the International obligations we have signed up for, as they have been doing for years.

Well like a good storm it might clear the air, something from the left field might save us all in the end, better off in the long run…either way it's gonna come to a head sooner or later and maybe it'll be some unexpected event that'll temper the madness and bring some pragmatism to the situation, we can't save the world, like a parasite the ngo complex has got far too large and gained far too much influence in government and media circles, they need to be culled and then maybe we can move on with the welfare of the citizens paramount and leave something better for our grandchildren than is promised by these fantasists if they're let have their way

In every other country people would put aside their differences with the main opposition party in order to remove an unpopular government. Keir Starmer and Kamala Harris aren't exactly inspiring leaders and wouldn't be high on the priority list for people in either country but they're able to recognise the choice is either them or more of the same.

In Ireland we moan and complain as the country sinks further and further with the 100+ year duopoly yet convince ourselves the untested alternative would definitely be worse somehow.