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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Yeah...the government should be hangin its head in shame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,327 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The UK Defence Journal's twitter engagement is hilariously immature. Its like Paddy Cosgrave is managing their account.

    While the topic may be valid, they really shouldn't be taken any more seriously than two quid gossip mag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I am starting to think our neighbours want to come back they write so much about us.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lack-of-irish-defence-back-door-threat-to-uk-says-report/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The actual article in question came out in February. Not sure why it made its way to social media just now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,979 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I think ukdj might be trying to fill an "August slump" this particular article was out then in February with plenty of the usual comments, but for some reason they felt the need to simply republish it today? It is strange how much extra coverage they have started to give us, I mean sure its not a surprise when they have the ones up about all the international views on the state of things, but the article on the UNFIL incident for example is a bit strange.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭highpitcheric


    One sided smear job. No investigation or counter arguments. Bait.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭vswr


    UK Defence sources trying to shape policy of the new government….



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,979 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not really given how old the original report was, seems to be more connected with their upswing in Irish coverage for whatever reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭vswr


    UK are in the process of doing the autumn budget… there is a lot being mentioned about potential military cuts… there are numerous military outlets doing cajoling to raise awareness on various topics at the moment… another huge area is the Navy new subs and frigates/destroyers…. along with Army numbers and pushing forward on the Challenger 3 and various autonomous systems …

    the above article is just one aspect of the RAF push…. lots of mentions abut the Wedgetails, Space warfare, transport gaps (no C-130 type craft) etc…. at the moment.

    edit: with the lacklustre Irish response, and the UK really concerned about the "Irish issue" (it's the American's too)… I can see something like more "overt" P-8 patrols from the American's, British, and Norwegian's as a potential option. It's pretty much in place at the moment, when required. I see a more routine and structured element happening though….

    How it is done is a different matter (do they patrol from Oceanic airspace only? Does Ireland pay towards it? etc…)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Its the UK Media at the end of the day. They have a quota to give about this country as old habits die hard.

    They dont understand the only thing that will change an irish elected rep is if it will cause them losing votes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,327 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Firstly, I hope the injured man will make a speedy and full recovery.

    But, this is very serious for a number of reasons.

    • The security protocols around DF installations
    • Misinformation around the DFs role in UN mandated peacekeeping missions, especially in the Middle East
    • Feeding a frenzy of far-=right narrative around the pillars of the State, immigration, housing etc etc - irrespective of there being no facts in the public domain about the background of the attacker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Hope the victim makes a full recovery,very disturbing attack.

    No indication of attackers motives,but far left radicals are active in Galway,graffiti is commonplace around Galway from same group.

    Btw the garrison church is outside the security perimeter of the barracks,it's not clear where attack took place.

    Post edited by kabakuyu on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,327 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Absolutely no point speculating without information.

    Could be a radical, could be a drunk or a lad deep down the K hole, could be driven by mental illness, or could be none of those things.

    There'll be a Court report soon enough and we'll know.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    It says in the indo article that solders fired warning shots to try to prevent the chaplain being stabbed anymore.

    Is there a reason they didnt just shoot the attacker?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,979 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Father Paul F Murphy has been tweeting:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0816/1465310-army-chaplain/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,327 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    They aren't the Gardaí. They have no mandate to discharge their weapons in a public space, which I'm assuming the location outside of the Barracks' gates would be considered.

    Yes I know that begs the question what is the point of sentries, but really they are there to prevent incursion and the loss of anything sensitive or dangerous on the base itself. As soldiers, without being under specific orders to act as as aid to the civil power, they can't just shoot people. In my view they did the right thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A life was saved thank goodness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,499 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    UKDJ say it was a clerical error, and the article from february was re-post as a new article.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I would say that if their purpose is to prevent loss to the military, then the chaplain counts as a military asset. In any case, most RoEs generally have 'you may shoot to protect life', without being overly specific as to where.

    Besides, they obviously disagreed that they had no mandate to discharge their weapons, as they apparently did do so. Why they only fired warning shots as opposed to those aimed at a person who may have been in the middle of stabbing a victim (I am reminded of the German cop a few months back who was stabbed and died as his partner hesitated to shoot) is something about which we can only speculate given the wide variety of possibilities to include a possible lack of a clear line of fire due to proximity of the victim.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Whatever about ROEs a stabbing is as close and personal as you can get , so a clear line of fire may not have been available , and then there's the fact that it's an urban n area , and the lads on sentry duty probably had Styr rifles , the chances of the bullet keeping going even if it did connect with the attacker are pretty high ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Clarke is keen to push that the fact that the army is engaged in deployments to risky locations such the Middle East it is critical that artillery is still a critical part of a military employed on peacekeeping missions.

    when has the Irish army used artillery in peacekeeping operations?, very odd to talk about an all out war vs peacekeeping or even peace enforcement…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    81mms i think are still brought out on overseas missions, AML 60s in the past and the older members of this forum can say weather the 120mm was ever sent over seas. I dont belive the 105s have gone on missions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    ok be prepared, perhaps show that you have them, but when have they been actively used, Jadotville?

    In what peacekeeping situation would they be used?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭RavenP


    A few years ago Ireland wanted to bring heavy weaponry, specifically Javelin missiles, to the Lebanon. Israel objected, officially because they were worried a Javelin might fall into Hezbolah hands, more probably because they do not want to set a precedent where UN forces have as good weaponry as they do. Instead they offered to give any Irish units operating in the area fire support from their 105mm guns. On one occasion the Irish requested the support and received it, which, of course, was billed as the Israeli’s rescuing weak Irish forces in the media. I doubt the army would want to be in that position in the future and would like its own fire support, either missile or arty based. I also doubt that the Israelis would offer it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭rock22


    Asking this out of total ignorance.

    That article says that in Ukraine the artillery has to be more mobile, making single shot and then moving, so to avoid return shot. The pictures show a gun on a carriage. In ww2 there were artillery guns mounted on armoured chassis. I am thinking of the Sturmgeschütz or the Jagdpanzer . Are such designs no longer considered useful ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    it seems peacekeepers would be more likely defending their bases not moving to capture areas as the article describes, really dont know what the russia invasion/war has to do with peacekeeping



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,970 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    which occasion, I searched did not find anything, yeah they have the javelins now…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,327 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not all UN deployments are peacekeeping. Some are peace enforcement, which includes engagements of organised hostiles, such as the UN mandated operations in the former Yugoslavia in the mid 1990s.

    And so it would absolute foolishness, neglectful even, for the tacticians of the armies of the World not to be looking closely at how the land war in Ukraine and Russia is evolving, now that the use of field artillery and armour is changing, as supplementary technology including drones and super-accurate counter-battery capability are part of the mix.



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