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The decline of SF?

11516182021

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Their new middle class activist base wont allow that sop thrown to the working class .

    The vitriol they are turning against many working class communities now would make a young PD blush.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    SF are a left wing socialist party!

    I would say they are the least likley of the 3 main parties to restrict asylum immigration. It seems everyone knew that from day 1, except for SF voters, oddly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It's a neoliberal policy adopted by the modern left and being ditched by many on the left across Europe who are bringing in restrictive immigration and asylum laws.

    It can happen .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    All things can happen, but SF are still the least likley to do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Until it is no longer captured by the well heeled, no.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,712 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    sf aint gonna be in government, so nothing to be truly worrying about, ffg all the way….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    SF will gladly lose the seats that start campaigning for things they dont believe in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I dont think many well heeled folks are voting SF, tbf.

    Its unlikley SF will be part of the next govt anyway, so perhaps a moot point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    In the membership and party activist base.

    The days of the party being full of lads who work on sites etc are gone.

    No. It will be FG FF again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Compared to 20 years ago, the average shinner cumann meeting is a lot more squeezed middle than unemployed. The 'well healed' dont tend to share who they vote for, so Im not sure if the stereotypes you are clinging to there are of any value.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,562 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    exactly the protest vote didn’t go to SF this time and doesn’t look as if it will going forward so it comes down to policies in the next GE and as you said SF work to do because current policies are severely lacking



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,562 ✭✭✭Timing belt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    any vote that rejects the sitting government party is a 'protest' vote. Again, as P. Donoghue said 'a GE is a different ballgame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Squeezed middle aren't well off, so we are probably talking about two different groups there.

    The well off who own property and pay the most income tax arent generally going to vote for their house price to fall and their incomes to be taxed even more.

    The squeezed middle will of course look for an alternative, i agree. But I think more and more people have realised that SF dont offer costed alternatives for that cohort anyway.

    In any case, overall first preference voting support for SF has dropped from 24.5% in 2020 to 21% today & they have now been overtaken as first choice by FG on 23%.

    Harris still seems keen to hold the GE next year, but there must be a strong case for an October election, post budget, while the parties in government are doing well in terms of support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,562 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    yes but protest vote seems to be going anywhere rather than SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,562 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    Maybe in an actual GE but in local elections and all opinion polls for GE it appears to be the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Given the local results before the GE I will let you bask in complacency and maintain my point. A lot can change and very quickly too. Either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭HBC08


    It's not just working class who want this immigration sh1tshow to stop,it's the majority of people in Ireland .

    The first major party to give a nod in that direction will walk the GE.

    This was an open goal for SF,they sh1t the bed and have gone into free fall instead.

    It really is a remarkable collapse.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    so the shinners should have been out marching against immigrants shouting 'out out out!' catch a grip. The government - them lads in poiwer than none of you seem to want to blame, control immigration, not people in IPA centres. If you want to blame 'illegal' immigration, do something about brexit because illegal immigrants are driving down from the north.

    SF stance has never changed on immigration. the apparent voters SF lost (which I very much doubt ever voted SF) hang out with loyalists, smashing up shops of people who arent white. WTF wants those kinds of assholes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 873 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    A lot of people in my wider family would not vote for Sinn Fein …. it is all for the same reason …. their ties to the IRA and association in their mind to the Northern Ireland violence …. the REALITY is SF are no longer even close to that era …. MLMcD and others were not even near any of that …. SF has evolved just like FF and FG once did too ….

    As it stands … and let's hope it remains so … most Irish want to vote for moderate parties …. thankfully the Trumpist copycats did v badly in the 2024 elections …. however issues that irk the people do need to be addressed …. housing etc …. on one hand and misinfo and social media inspired thuggery needs to be addressed on the other hand ….

    SF, FF and FG will for the foreseeable get about a third each give or take of the vote …. FF and FG are centre right and more natural partners …. the rise of another centre left party or the a rise in fortune for the other major centre left party Labour is needed for SF to form a govt …. that makes it more likely that FF and FG will form the next govt ….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭jh79


    To be fair when SF were courting Gemma and her crowd, her links to loyalism and racists wasn't a problem for the party. Paddy Holohan association with "Tan Torino" (right wing agitator, former member of the RAF) wasn't an issue either.

    Sf cultivated an online army from the conspiracy nuts and it has now turned against them. Big mistake that the party thought it could control both the left and right wing conspiracy nuts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Your two gotcha's are not members of SF. One never was and the other was drummed out of the party. That you think this hasn't happened in other parties (or maybe you are willfully ignoring it) is gas.
    Party members will say and do the wrong thing and no longer have the whip or support of the party right across politics.
    And don't get me started on attempts to influence online. There was never any proof that SF were controlling 'an online army' their attempt to get people to advocate for the party online was open, and you needed to join the party to do it, they weren't sneaky and looking for 'anonymous accounts' to do it, but actual supporters. Given what it was turned into by fearful conspiracy theories (who willfully and hypocritically also ignored the more sinister advocate of 'anonymous accounts) they might re-consider making that call again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭jh79


    Plenty of examples of SF members involvement in conspiracy theories and their promotion. Brian Stanley, Browne in Tipp, Violet before she left, Martina Anderson , the anti vax presidential candidate whose name i've forgotten. SF rise in support occured in the same time frame and opinion polls showed a higher belief in CT's among SF supporters compared to other parties. Ditto far right sentiment. Coincidence or consequence of a plan to recruit within that cohort?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'support' that is now looking elsewhere because SF won't support them?
    Where has it gone? Oh look FF and FG support has increased in the same time frame.
    SF don't want that support as it is not chasing it.

    Several of the people above apologised for their tweets/actions like members of all parties have had to do. That's a good thing in my book, are you being selective at all in the apologies you accept and the ones you don't? You also should look into the meaning of 'plenty'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭jh79


    I think after the review they realised they could lose their left wing base as well as the right if they continued with their ambiguity around immigration to increase support. They still are a bit soft on the right but do seem to have changed course.

    Not sure what you mean by accepting apologies? Those people were extremely active in conspiracy theory groups and helped promote them. Conspiracy theorists were like a moth to a flame once a mainstream party showed an interest. SF support increased with plenty coming from the CT community. When Gemma started CT were mostly a left wing phenomenon. It slowly morphed into right wing community.

    I believe they purposely tried to get votes from this group and were caught out when they started believing in Replacement Theory .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Believe what you want. That SF policy and leadership do not re-enforce any of this points to the fact that you are perhaps the purveyor of a conspiracy theory yourself. One man's sincerely held beliefs are another's conspiracy theory and all that.
    Of course you forget FG endorsement and support for Verona Murphy's toxic views before they too moved away from them officially. Similarly their incubation of ultra conservative people like Lucinda Creighton and her Renua colleagues before parting ways with them.

    As I say, you can myopically hold a view and cherrypick, personally I think all parties have rogue members and people who don't tow the party line, what the leadership and policy say is the important thing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭jh79


    Do you consider all those in SF who support CT'S are rogue members? Stanley, Anderson, Daly, Browne?

    Why do you think that SF supporters are the least progressive of all the parties? Just bad luck?



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