Milk Price III

what did you think of your experiment of keeping a few cattle the last year or two from the springs was the return worth the extra work?

I had two runs to get the three out there, I wait around to carry them home if he decides to. He in not into taking advice when it's offered so basically I not digging out any further. If I push them I will get left with them and I could probably push them 50/head no issue. However risk is I do not normally deal in cows so I am not sure how fast I could get them into the factory under QA rules. Generally do not deal in short term cattle.

As well I only charge him my costs to draw the cattle, he did not offer to pay for the puncture and he did not pays for the last load last year. There was a couple young Belted Galway culls that needed finishing in before that I would have bought if I knew the scales were out that much. I do not generally buy there

People who don't invest wisely in facilities and infrastructure are simply "milking" what they already have. Grand when you are getting older and slowing down towards some form of retirement. If you are not though then you have a lot of years ahead of you where you are falling a little more behind each year. That compounds and can make it harder to make any changes in the future if you need to out of necessity later

As long as you don't "overstretch" yourself at that start then you'll find that later investments are often much easier to make. You still have to be careful with your choices but you have to move with the times too. It's not a licence or a suggestion to spend stupid money

It no longer an advantage. Basically too many dairy, tillage and the ultra large beef farmers are in companies so they all compete against each other. It similar to lads thinking stamp duty is an extra cost. Farmers similar to people buying houses as there home will generally pay the maximum they can afford.

There is investing and over investing.

Take a chill pill. First off you are butting into an uncivilised conversation. The second part is whatever about concrete I have never seen tractor jockeys buy too much land.

As an aside its you have left your business exposed to significant planning issues. This is probably the next can of worms farming will have to deal with.

Why?

Of course it's an advantage. Not relative to the other fella also with a company structure but definitely compared to those without.

Not really any longer and time will prove me right. First off the land is not yours it belong to another entity. Secondly it's has driven the price of land mental so the lad in a company structure buying it is paying similar to a lad outside a company structure 10years ago.

Next trying to get it out of a company structure down the line and transferring it is a significant issue. Yes you can use the 750k retirement relief however that may not always be there or it may be redefined as a cash/equities only retirement product.

Finally if you do manage to bring it out of a company structure it may have to be in your own name ten years before you can transfer it and you have to be actively farming it.

Company structure in farming are the devil's spawn

You are talking about different things.Tax implications of taking it out of a structure is a real thing but a separate issue. Some may go into a structure thinking that that is either so far down the line as to be irrelevant or that the company will not be broken up.

Farmers buying land and not only competing against other farmers. There are plenty of outside investors who just want to park their money in it. Or others who want to use it as a vehicle to avoid inheritance tax for their kids etc. And plenty of lads interested in actually working it will buy land with money from outside sources (such as a 9-5) and would not have the farm income to pay for the land, and as such wouldn't benefit as much from a company structure.

Saying that the system itself leads to higher prices is also a bit irrelevant to the individual as he has to work within the system as it is now and "advantage" needs to be relative to others also competing in the same game at the same time.

At the last auction I bid at, I went to over 90% of the eventual hammer price. The eventual buyer is in a company setup and in intensive tillage. The other active bidder I don't know because they were bidding over the phone. I would have been buying with money from outside sources. Without going into too much detail it was over 50 acres so it wasn't massive but not tiny either. I'm happy I didn't go higher but it is quite possible that if the company man didn't have the tax advantages relative to me that I would have got it for what I bid. Did the fact that he could buy on money that had only paid corporation tax advantage him for the purposes of that auction - as opposed to a system where he would have had to buy it from his personal income?

If a man with a large annual surplus from farming asked you "Bass, I really want to buy some land over the next 5 years. Would it be any advantage to me to restructure as a company"? Would you say "no, no advantage". Or would you say "yes, well it will definitely help you buy it but just be aware that the company will own the land and you will own the company, but that is not the same as you owning the land in many important regards"

(And while a company structure might be overkill for an average family farm, there are plenty of large operations for which it can help. Particularly over generations to avoid being broken up)

why would it sicken you I’ve gotten from 5 to 45 out of yard for Fr bulls ageing from 14 to 23 days ….it is what it is I loose no sleep over it ….most important thing is I have a buyer and they stay coming ….if I keep them for 4/6 weeks I’d probably still do well to get up to 100/120 euro …..I carry far bigger risk and loose money on them ….

I just find it insulting I guess. My calves are worth more in my opinion. The local mart call the calves that sell for a fiver underfed calves. The whole thing pisses me off. When you see the money lads pay for calves after the peak has passed its amazing. I have 6 Feb beef calves left here now running away with the Fr heifers.

why don’t you just use sexed semen or have you no mass in it? Let the 2/3 fr bulls off for whatever they make and put everything not bred for replacements into beef

100% whelsn

The Tax liability of an 80k income is 23. 6k unless the spouse is earning above 43k and needs to be earning significantly above 43k for to cause a significant tax liability.

If you put the maximum 15% into a pension fund( sub 50 years of age) you reduce the tax liability by 6k to 18.6.

If you draw 43k it costs 7.5k ( which you should be doing)so the difference is about 11k. Even with no pension contributions putting 37k into a company costs 4.6k in company tax and about 2k extra in accountancy fees.

So your net benefit is about 5k and it's not your money. Even if the spouse had a significant off farm income 60k ( after that level they cannot no longer benefit from your tax credits and bands) you end up with another 5k savings. And that is with out either of you making a pension contribution

If you have children in the 8-10 age bracket within 4-5 year you will cut that tax saving in half.

As I have pointed out you want a tax liability in the 50k+ regularly before going into a company structure

gone into company since march for various reasons …..tax was one and I wasn’t paying close to 50 k tax ….great way of building wealth was sceptical at start but as time passes every month it was correct decision ….your very general here re company assumptions …my advice talk to your accountant and I went step further and got another accountant to look over things and give me advice ….money v well spent