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The decline of FG?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where does the national team play at the minute? Used to go to Armagh with a relative who was mad into the game, good day out but like golf it takes a big chunk out of your day to follow it or play it. I give both sports up for that reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,673 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They can announce a date, but nothing legally starts until the Dáil is dissolved.

    You cannot do a 2 month campaign like the UK does, 30 days is the absolute max. Its basically either a 3 or 4 week campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Thankfully

    You could reasonably assume that whatever date they announce for the election will come true mind. Be nice if they had it on the same date as the Locals and Euros were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Having a GE on the same day as the Local and Euro elections would be a disaster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yep, and I dont believe FG have all their candidate places filled yet, so perhaps more time needed to prepare the runners and riders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I love these comments that make explicit statements without any explanation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I can give you two reasons it would be a very bad idea.

    Firstly, it would be an even greater mess in terms of the count length - even splitting the ballots would take twice as long; and tallying would fall to bits. Every party wants the tally data.

    Secondly, the same people can and do run in all three elections. There are days where some candidates would probably win all three (Ciaran Cuffe got elected to both DCC and Europe on the same day in 2019 and would probably have won a Dáil seat too then or 2020 if he'd run; a Green candidate topped the poll in his old constituency).

    This would cause a mix of immediate by-elections, council co-optees for the entire term (already happened with Paddy Holohan winning two seats on the same council; and Sharon Keoghan in 2019 - but it would become extremely common) and MEP replacement lists for the entire term - there are always people who want Europe over the Dáil and vice versa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You have explained it in a very common sense way. I would have thought it needed no explanation, especially as anyone who followed politics recently would have seen the Holohan issue as well as the Peader Tobin issue where he said he wouldn't take the seat in Europe if he won.

    Amazing that it needed to be explained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    With regard to the longer count length I'd argue it's a symbol of democracy in action and not really an issue at all. If candidates want to run in 3 elections that's their choice, the govt could always legislate to ban the practice as it's a silly one anyway

    There is also a few upsides that you may not have considered

    Filling the Dail, Seanad, Council and European seats in one day creates a more unified party distribution across the political spectrum.

    There would also be fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often and politicians wouldn't need to be calling to our doors looking for local or European seats just to do the exact same thing in a few months time

    As an example, under the current schedule, SF could rise to power in a few months time in the Dail while we know the Seanad will likely be filled with the civil war party candidates because of how the local elections went for them



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  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭moon2


    You could have just said:

    You have explained it in a very common sense way.

    Thanks!

    Presumably one of the benefits of a discussion forum is that participants can learn. Being sarky for no apparent reason doesn't help anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Local and European elections are for a fixed term and everyone across Europe votes the same week.

    General Elections can be called at any time, and a Government isn’t necessarily going to last the full term.

    This is very basic Junior Cert level stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I don't consider your interlinked first and third points to be upsides.

    There is also the massive problem that Governments fall, with no potential replacement available without a new election. Fixed terms don't work in our system.

    Would you have been happy with FF hanging on til June 2012 (the 5 year anniversary of the previous term), unable to actually pass any legislation; just because the election date was fixed? Or would you have suggested that the incoming Government from the Feb 2011 election only got 16 months, to return to a cycle?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not controlling the Seanad would be functionally meaningless to a SF government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I was specifically working on the basis of this year where they could have had the GE at the same time as the LE, Since we're going to the polls anyway in the next few weeks again

    Legally speaking the Seanad need to also pass legislation before it becomes law. It would help if there was a govt majority there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Seanad can only delay not fully block bills; 11 Taoiseach nominees and most likely a transfer deal with whoever they go in to Government with would probably scrape a majority

    However, they only had 7 Senators based on the big 2014 LE base anyway; the other parties are more easily able to get votes from Independents so there is zero guarantee that fiddling with the election dates would help at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Suggesting the longer count length being a symbol of democracy in action is seriously clutching at straws. While the length of the count might not really be an issue, there certainly isn't any benefit in extending the count to include three elections. Cutting short a relatively popular government (likely to be returned anyway) just to align with the EU election date would be extremely undemocratic. The negatives for democracy would far outweigh the positives.

    An actual symbol of democracy in action would be separate election days with focused campaigns. The lines between local issues and national issues and EU level issues are already quite blurred in this country, horsing all together on one election day would further blur it. It would be impossible to run three dedicated campaigns focusing on the relevant issues at each level simultaneously. There wouldn't be time for meaningful debates at each level and the public would zone out from all the noise.

    And now that you are saying you were talking specifically about this year, the advantages you put forward of "fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often" is negligible. That one school day saved is unlikely to be replicated again for the remainder of the school lives of current school children. The financial and environmental savings would be barely above 0.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Suggesting the longer count length being a symbol of democracy in action is seriously clutching at straws. While the length of the count might not really be an issue, there certainly isn't any benefit in extending the count to include three elections. Cutting short a relatively popular government (likely to be returned anyway) just to align with the EU election date would be extremely undemocratic. The negatives for democracy would far outweigh the positives.

    An actual symbol of democracy in action would be separate election days with focused campaigns. The lines between local issues and national issues and EU level issues are already quite blurred in this country, horsing all together on one election day would further blur it. It would be impossible to run three dedicated campaigns focusing on the relevant issues at each level simultaneously. There wouldn't be time for meaningful debates at each level and the public would zone out from all the noise.

    And now that you are saying you were talking specifically about this year, the advantages you put forward of "fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often" is negligible. That one school day saved is unlikely to be replicated again for the remainder of the school lives of current school children. The financial and environmental savings would be barely above 0.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Middle of a housing crisis but let's give the developers another 12 months. Political open-goal here

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0820/1465844-ireland-politics/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    P earse Doherty delighted. He was shouting on the news tonight. Why he has to continually shout is beyond me



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,121 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    He usually leaves the shouting to the Dáil where the increasingly useless SF social media team upload a clip of it to Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok.

    He was actually shouting at the camera out in the wild this evening. Bizarre to be honest. Does he think it signifies passion or something?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This could be a serious mistake by Fianna Fail. The Greens are rightly up in arms about this. There is a process to have land dezoned if farmers don't want to pay the tax.

    The clever thing to do would be to announce that the tax was deferred for a year to allow those farmers time to apply to have their land dezoned. That would move things along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Farmers had plenty of time to de-zone as the same proposal got deferred last year as well. Moreover FFG had the time to amend the legislation to exclude active farmers. Something which Pearse Doherty suggested 3 years ago but for some reason went un-noticed

    The truth, of course, is that the housing crisis suits landlords and property developers. Hoarding residential zoned land increases the pressures of the housing crisis and makes the landlords and property developers richer so there is a great incentive for this cohort to continue to hoard land.

    At the same time then, many FFG politicians are landlords and by and large landlords and property developers vote for FFG so why would FFG want to actively sort out the housing crisis? All it would do is cost them money and votes. Neither of which are very wise things to be toying with a few months before an election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    At least he's wiling to appear on the news unlike Jack Cowardice Chambers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Health insurance prices are on the rise. Can't help but think that if sláintecare was in place by now instead of the loading that FFG introduced we wouldn't have this new problem

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0821/1466019-vhi-to-increase-premiums-by-average-of-3-5-from-october/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    Could you not have combined all that into one post instead of spamming it with three like as if you've a quota to fill or a competition to win with the other thread🤔

    Btw Jack Chambers was on the news twice today talking about this

    Also,its not up to farmers to dezone land they had no hand act or part in zoning in the first place,why should they have the cost of dezoning?

    Councils voted on the zoning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,817 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The obvious answer is that I was replying to 2 separate posts and then quoting a news article showing the in-competencies of the current govt. You choose to ignore this very obvious assumption that most people would make and prefer to make snide personal comments instead of addressing the issues posed.

    A known tactic of the far right… I genuinely worry about the political direction our country is headed



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    A known Trumpian tactic in recent weeks is to say Kamala Harris is avoiding journalists when CNN fact checked that with several doorstops she did with journalists answering and making time for their questions

    You tried Trumpian tactics yesterday by saying the Finance minister was hiding on the zoning issue when in fact he was interviewed on the news yesterday twice

    Pot Kettle

    And btw,this is the politics forum,you absolutely can put multiple points into one post rather than spamming with multiple posts one after the other

    Noone here has suggested you don't post but in a higher brow discussion forum like this,it's not unreasonable to expect no soap boxing or ranting

    The key word is Discussion



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    What stations was Jack Chambers on? I didn't notice him or any FFG on Newstalk and was listening to that most the day. Key word here being "most" before you jump. Whatever way you feel about the multiple posts I'm certainly not being paid per post, if I was there would be a lot lot more of them!



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