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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,854 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    They're not 'pounced on', they brought it in to the discussion, and it's very significant (in my view) given the effort that the poster has put in over the last 2 weeks arguing about being targeted, ganged up on and bullied. And trying to get Boards to consider a list of phrases which would see someone warned or banned.

    Choosing to ignore the content of over 100 people, on a discussion forum where we're discussing the drop in numbers suggests to me that close to anyone who disagrees with them or challenges them they feel aggrieved by.

    I don't disagree with that poster on pretty much any topic on the threads the 2 of us often end up on. But I'm not going to ignore them, I come here for a discussion, and I'd say I've used the ignore list less than 3 times in the 10 years I've been here. And I run in to plenty people who disagree with me and who aren't shy in telling me they do and why.

    I don't have a problem with people using the function, but using it only after you've gone to a lot of effort to convince mods to react to these posts that are bothering you. And all the while talking about people wanting to shut down discussion is just icing on the cake to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Having had a look at my 12 or so warnings over the last year, most of them are for uncivil comments and most of them come on a Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. Self-reflection time for me, I'm probably annoyed after work on those days. Note to self: calm down:-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    100% bang on - in the refugee thread at the moment there’s a post which is typical of the type - good points made, and the response is a combo of pointless whataboutery and asking posters to justify their opinion.

    Saying that offering your opinion “is not debate” then what is it??? Good to see your thoughts there Chips!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    reading the thread and @Big Bag of Chips last few posts made me realise we’re all part of The Gerry Springer Show and Chips is the man himself 😂






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    Thanks for the reply.

    Just one other question as a volunteer here has there been any discussions behind the scenes about the use of twitter posts to post an opinion whatever side it's from?

    As it has turned into a cestpit lately I see it being used to link to some fairly dubious accounts without much comment attached.

    It seems to be a roundabout way to push some fairly dodgy agendas.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,196 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,339 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    My approach has always been that tweets have utility in helping make a point but should not constitute the point in and of themselves outside of a thread for memes and links. This is my mentality as a Politics mod though. I'm not speaking on behalf of any other mod.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Administrators Posts: 14,294 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Unless the content is very offensive it is usually left to show posters why a certain post was actioned, why a poster was banned etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    If the poster is previously thread banned would it not make sense to delete the post and just add a note to state why the post was deleted.

    This would still act as a reminder to all.

    Also any feedback regarding the twitter link dumping?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,398 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I think it would depend on the content of the post tbh. That's just how I see it though, mod might be able to give a better reason for either leaving the comment with a visible warning or deleting the post.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    I actually don't agree. I think if you express an opinion there is onus on you to back it up, especially if it's contentious one, or an opinion that is provably incorrect. It is a discussion forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    That's a valid opinion. I would think though thread banned which in theory does not happen lightly should mean just that and the content of the post deleted with a mod note if possible and a sanction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,398 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    The threadban could be because of an accumulation of lesser transgressions, rather than an one outright offensive post.

    It's not a black and white issue, someone could just be a timesink over a period of time and haven't adjusted their posting style despite repeated warnings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    It's still a thread ban though. We won't agree on this so ill leave it there.

    I was giving feedback not dictating how rules should be applied.

    I would add as a suggestion if a poster racks up say 3+ thread bans in CA it's time to start looking at further actions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,474 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?

    I'd hope it can. Vanilla was and remains a disaster, with any progress being very slow and half baked. The how part of the above question is really difficult answer. I can't of any message board I've used elsewhere that's thriving now. Participation is so much less. It's not instant gratification form of browsing the web a la social media, it never was. That was a strength, imo. I come to boards for a lot of reasons - fun, sharing, learning, chatting and to get a sense of what the Irish online community is thinking. I might come across an article on here that I'll then pass on IRL. There is still a lot knowledge here across cooking, games, sport/fitness, cars, music, gardening, tech and phones and so on, and importantly, a willingness to engage. Vanilla aside, the TV forum suffers simply because there are too many TV shows airing and fewer still get much traction on here (if it's subtitled, good luck), unless a few posters are devoted to it or it becomes a real word of mouth type of show, with half the internet glued to it.

    Unfortunately, with political topics and social issues, I feel this is a symptom of the wider shift in the internet. Group A says something, Group B shouts back, state of ya and the pitchforks come out. Twitter pre-Musk was an example of this. Myself, I left an IRL committee after 7 years partly due to how some of this was spilling over into communication and group dynamics. Last year, a big follow up to a very successful 2022 project was later disbanded, not even getting to the point of terms of reference or anything written. Due to internal politics. Something about the past several years that makes holding the middle ground feel difficult and frustrating, I don't mean in the sense of labels…I wish debates were largely kept to points on the merit. I've not watched the full thing, but it's Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson countering political correctness in a debate. Fry cites Oscar Wilde's line about the Oxford manor or 'the ability to play gracefully with ideas' and this disappearing from our world.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,294 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    You've posted the same question 7 times now and been given the same answer from multiple people. It's not that big a deal to leave the post on the thread and warn/forum ban whatever the poster. There are far more pressing issues to be dealt with. If a post is offensive it will always be removed. If it's not offensive it might be left there.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,294 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Yes, it's a discussion forum. But you have no control over anyone else. So if a poster posts an opinion and doesn't feel bothered to back it up or prove it or debate it then there's nothing you can do about that. I'd suggest not getting too worked up over it when it happens. Mildly irritated maybe, but then move on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    It’s the case surely that something can be against the rules - say it is widely off topic but it’s not offensive then it would stay up, is that right ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    I posted 7 times in a feedback thread each time addressing other posters and raising questions.

    Thanks for your feedback.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,294 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Moderator discretion is always used. One moderator may decide to delete it. Another would leave it.

    I don't know why this tiny thing has become a 2 page issue!! It's a complete non-issue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    For sure! Sorry I just peeped in at the end of th discussion!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,650 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If it is a poster expressing an opinion, how they see things, and it is just a post or two, that's one thing.

    But when it happens again and again, as poster derail(s) a thread with dodgy claims, scurrilous rumours, doesn't engage with challenges to the content, doesn't support the claim with evidence or links to garbage source…

    That's much more than a mild irritation… and should be subject to mod action.

    And tbh if people weren't that bothered about it they probably wouldn't still be here on boards posting away, at least not in contested forums like CA.

    A lot of people are moving on, they keep going and don't come back.

    That leads me onto the elephant in the room, which is that the contributions we haven't heard about, which is the 'exit interviews' of the people who left.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Of course, I'm not suggesting that people should be forced to reply, but if I express opinion on here I do feel an onus to back it up when asked and I think most people do too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭nachouser


    I can see another week or so of this and BBOC will be like, yeah, I'm done.

    Own your posts and get over it. None of us are Descartes. It's a message board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    It's kind of the nature of anonymous discussion boards though isn't it: a lot of people are going to claim things as fact that they can't really back up.

    It's irritating for sure, but the way I read what BBoC had to say was that you have to accept after a while that if the evidence to back up claims isn't forthcoming then there isn't much at the end of the day that you can really do about it. It isn't a court of law, you can't force people or obligate them to supply references or evidence etc.

    It would be great if everyone was stringent about it and posted only verifiable facts, but, let's face it, a lot of the appeal for some people about places like boards is that you can just say things, without having much to back it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭Soc_Alt


    The only people left are legacy posters who are trying to save their post counts and join dates.

    Everyone else moved on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    I don't disagree, but I think if a poster continuously did this I think it would be OK if other posters pointed it out to them. Would that be derailing the thread? Possibly.

    I'm thinking of a very specific example in a forum on here where a poster(a/c closed a long time ago) would continuously post very reactionary comments, but hardly ever reply if those posts were challenged. It went on for years, changed the whole tone of that forum and imo had a detrimental affect on the whole culture of the place. I always thought that this was called "soapboxing", but I now think I might be getting my internet forum definitions mixed up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,650 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Iirc I have seen mod warnings on thread in CA for not posting constructively.

    To me that would fall under that heading.

    It seems like soap boxing, hit and run posting or maybe flame baiting / drive by trolling.

    Lot of lingo!

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭Shoog


    One of the biggest complaint of some in this discussion is been asked to support their claims with evidence. This is because a lot of posters are arguing purely from opinion and claiming it as fact.

    Should we accept that this sort of soapboxing as acceptable behaviour within a discussion ? It's highly disruptive to developing a discussion and yet it's what many want to be given a free pass on.

    So in the context of this discussion I think soapboxing in this way should be actionable and should not be accepted behaviour. We can't force a person to support their position but we should be able to sanction and complain when it's the whole basis of a person's debate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    But often we are not talking about opinions, we are talking about claimed facts.

    It's very common for a poster to make a certain claim (for example, the government spend X on a certain project, or that there unemployed people are entitled to X, or that there are X number of immigrants, etc), and not provide any evidence for that.

    In response posters go out of their way to examine this - they find and offer evidence or even proof that this is not the case, and the original poster does not acknowledge or respond in any way.

    This is a form of bad faith posting that is absolutely poisonous in CA, but virtually unmoddable under current rules. Some of these thoroughly debunked claims have been doing the rounds for years.

    I can't tell you the number of times I've typed out a reply to somebody, and then started to ask myself…."do I really want to do this? Do I really want to start post this and get no reply, or else get involved in some pointless back and forth with that poster who history tells me is a bad faith poster? Do I really want to be getting replies from a bunch of other posters asking irrelevant questions, or offering whataboutery or strawman arguments?"

    And in the end I just don't bother, because it's just not worth it.



This discussion has been closed.
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