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What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,088 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Yip, that time of the year when we get media reports telling us the average cost to send a child back to school is something daft like €800 to €1000.

    I have sent several kids back to school many times, and it costs a fraction of that.

    But hey, why let the truth get in the way of a rant on Liveline or CB Today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    It must come as a bit of a shock to parents actually having to pay for something though.

    Next Man City manager: You lot may all be internationals and have won all the domestic honours there are to win under Pep. But as far as I'm concerned, the first thing you can do for me is to chuck all your medals and all your caps and all your pots and all your pans into the biggest **** dustbin you can find, because you've never won any of them fairly. You've done it all by bloody cheating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah it does, yeah. Once parental leave was over and sent the child to nursery, a 1,200 monthly bill would leave a big hole in anyone's finances. Big adjustment for anyone who doesn't have 1,200 a month to spare, wouldn't you think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    But surely everyone knows that childcare is expensive. If you can’t afford to have children then maybe do not have them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Obviously. And when a 1,200 a month fee kicks in, you'd obviously notice it.

    It would be unusual to never talk about. You notice how much of your wage goes straight out on childcare so you can work. It also makes you wo for how a single parent could make it work unless they were on mega money.

    It's not that big a deal but I'm amused that anyone would be cross about a parent mentioning a new 1,200 monthy cost.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Most controversial opinion of mine especially when in Ireland:

    I strongly dislike Palestinian flags in public, especially if waved by Irish people wrongly believing that anything Palestinian is good, and anything Israeli is bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    I’d echo this. Went to All Together Now and they were all over the shop. I personally think a lot of it is a fashion statement. A bit like the REPEAL jumpers. For a while there it helped me avoid people I just wouldn’t like. And I strongly supported repealing the 8th.

    I’m not sure many agree but I’m sickened that politics have become so overt in the modern day. Day-to-day I really couldn’t care about somebodies politics and I’ll happily keep it private to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,489 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    Usually flown by the local nut jobs, unemployed trouble makers, do-gooders, attention seekers etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Out of tolerance ( certainly not out of personal opinion ) I would find it acceptable if the Palestinian flag was flown on a protest in vicinity or near the Israeli embassy. But in Ireland having a Palestinian flag seems to be fashionable with anybody who thinks that they "care" and are on the "side of the good ones".

    To me Palestinian flags symbolize terror, kidnapping, murder and repeated rape. Anybody flying a Palestinian flag would symbolize to me that they support all that injustice and inhumanity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    The people I know who waive the Palestinian flag do so because they are of the opinion that mass murder of women and children should not be tolerated by the Western world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I have exactly the oposite opinion. Hamas and Hezbolah are terrorist in my view, and they terrorised Israel. Should that be tolerated by the Western world?

    And historically it's been the Jews who were hunted town, ( Nazis, Reichskristallnacht, ) so naturally they have a right to fight back.

    Also, our christian culture is closer alligned with Jewish, rather than with Arabs.

    The Jewish faith is also way older than the Muslim faith.

    But again, it's a controversial opinion.

    I was just utterly shocked that so many Irish take sides with the Palestinians. Germans or Austrians would never dare to do that, at least not to that great extent, considering the history.

    And, also, Ireland is always proud of neutrality. What about neutrality in this conflict? Apparently also a no go?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,882 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Ireland is only militarily neutral. And at that it’s only a historical government stance. It’s not written into our constitution. Historically we’ve been politically aligned to many different sides of particular conflicts. Look at Ukraine vs Russia for example… even then beyond politically our armed forces have provided some weapons training to Ukranian forces… so we pick and choose our relationship with neutrality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    What about the thousands of innocent women and children that neither side seems to care about? Nobody in Ireland supports Hamas or Hezbolah but I'm sure you already know this. Irish people are proud of our neutrality which is why we are disgusted with everyone who kills innocent people. It's not ok for terrorists to murder children and its not ok for a countries army to kill children. Irish people simply want peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I have never waved a Palestinian flag. But if I did it would be because of the reason above and also because I'm not keen on ethnic cleaning.

    I don't excuse any of the violence committed by Palestinians. I do however acknowledge that violent resistance* is a natural consequence of prolonged oppression. We all understand that fact when we look at Irish history and see they did a violent rebellion every 30-50 years.

    *violent resistance doesn't have to extend to non-military people and targets. If the Palestinians only attacked isreali military targets and only killed military personnel, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Nor would I have a problem with isreali military killing Palestinian military (which gets tricky because isreal control Palestinian affairs and explicitly forbid them having a military).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    "Also, our christian culture is closer alligned with Jewish, rather than with Arabs.

    The Jewish faith is also way older than the Muslim faith."

    I don't see what that has to do with anything, esp as Christians have been hammering Jews for thousands of years for killing Jesus (also a Jew)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Oversimplified, Judaism is the Abrahamic OG, Christianity and Islam are reforms and evolution. One guided by a pacifist carpenter, the other, well, we all know by whom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Funny that Christianity wasn't awfully pacifist though. Crusades were murdery enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes, imagine the other one, how can that even dream of being pacifist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,944 ✭✭✭growleaves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    The people who wave Palestinian flags are supporters of terrorists.

    The Palestinians could stop the war tomorrow if they gave back the Israeli hostages and Hamas, surrendered.

    I’m not a Jew but I support Israel’s right to exist and defend itself against people who want to eliminate Israel and kill all the Jews.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    The right to exist is one thing , the right to occupy and kill is another



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    The war could end if Hamas surrendered. Why don’t the Palestinian sympathisers call for Hamas to surrender?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I think they should , but Israel doesn’t get to launch a genocidal war because of one terrorist attack



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Maybe Israel should write them a letter asking them to be nicer in future. That should do it.

    Not everyone agrees with the genocide propaganda being spouted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    When Israel targets schools with displaced people taking shelter , there’s only one answer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭cms88


    Something that's interesting is people are very fact to say they support Palestinian and not Hamas fair enough. Yet according to the same people everyone from Israel is branded the same and should be boycotted etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,119 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    The difference is people are supporting Palestine (the country) and not supporting Hamas (the terrorist organisation) and they are against Israel (the country) so that's why they want to boycott all Israel. A terrorist organisation is attacking Israel, almost everyone agrees that's wrong, but they act within their own set of rules. Israel as a country is performing genocide on a neighbouring country, and as a country themselves they should be held to a higher standard than a terrorist organisation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,682 ✭✭✭✭Deja Boo


    Agreed… and Israels use of white phosphorous missiles (restricted under international humanitarian law), targeting civilian populations, early in the conflict, is another example of utter inhumanity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I also agree with isreals right to exist and defend itself.

    The controversial question is: does Palestine have thd right to exist and who should defend it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    This post clearly shows that you know nothing about the conflict. If a terrorist takes control of a school obviously the teachers that work in the school are just as bad as the terrorist, maybe the children are terrorists just for existing.

    Hamas attacked Israel not Palestine, its important to be aware of the actual basic facts before you discuss a topic. Yes Israel have every right to exist and defend itself, but they do not have a right to target locations full of children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Just because someone’s opinion is different to yours is no reason to assume that they know nothing about the subject.

    This is a war not a terrorist incident. There will be civilian casualties in any war. The line between Palestinian civilians and Hamas is also very grey.

    Israel needs to eliminate Hamas as a threat for its security. A Hamas surrender and the return of the Israeli hostages will end the conflict- why aren’t Simon Harris and Michael D calling for this solution? Why aren’t you calling for this solution?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Why didn't the Provos just surrender to the British government?

    If you don't talk to the other side, strike a deal, no matter how much it disgusts you, you're going to have a forever war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    I don’t think that you can equate the Provos with Hamas.

    Hamas only want a ceasefire so that they can regroup and refocus on their goal of destroying Israel and it’s people.

    A ceasefire without a Hamas surrender is a victory for Hamas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The Provos goal was a United Ireland through armed struggle, they didn't get that. Not yet at any rate.

    Point still stands. You kick a dog continuously, you shouldn’t be surprised if that dog bites you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Obviously, you are talking about Hamas/Palestine starting this part of the conflict last October and now crying about the consequences of their actions



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭csirl


    That's simply not true. There is a tendency for good teachers gravitate to better schools, if only for career fulfillment purposes. Also, like in any other profession, people will take jobs in good areas ahead of working somewhere dodgy.

    Here's a contraversial opinion. Many schools in these areas have teaching staffs who are the dredges of the teaching profession. No real intetest in the kids, who they (wrongly) regard as having no prospects. Then throw in the odd nutcase who believes their superior to the kids because they come from a more middle class background.

    In many cases the schools fail the children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Obviously you have ignored the long long history of Israel's land stealing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It's not the schools who make dodgy areas dodgy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The only way Israel can eliminate Hamas is doing a genocide on every Palestinian, woman and child within and without Palestine. They got to murder the kids to make sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭randd1


    Controversial opinion. I don't really care about the whole Israel/Palestinian thing.

    Both side have gone so far down the rabbit hole of hate, that a state of perpetual oppression/war/terrorism is going to be the norm.

    Neither side really wants peace. Both sides seem intent on committing war crime after war crime.

    The only difference between the two that I can see is Israel have more and bigger guns. Give the Palestinians the same weaponry, and they'd happily wipe each other out.

    Neither side seems to care for human life. I would argue that both sides have lost a significant sense of their humanity, and and both sides have become truly hateful people. As for their leaders, whether Israeli or Hamas, they only exist to punish the other, which tells a lot about the will of their people.

    I don't doubt for a second that there's a significant percentage of the population of either side that simply want to live in peace. But I also believe they'd be happy to have that if it meant the genocide of the other.

    And I find it hard to feel sorry or empathize with either side because of it. If they want to be that inhumane to each other, to perpetually hold each others children accountable for past grievances and be happy to slaughter each other, then I don't see why I should care for either side.

    And I don't. As much as it horrifies me seeing Israeli forces blow apart Palestinians or Palestinians kidnap and murder/torture/ launch attacks against Israeli's, at the same time I've become numb to it because I know nothing will ever change, and both sides are so full of hate that it'll be the same thing over and over until one wipes out the other.

    And I care for neither side or the horrors they have inflicted on them, because they're willing to do the same. And the longer they do, the more I don't care. As inhuman as that sounds, there's simply no hope there, and personally I just fell numb to it all because of it.

    Post edited by randd1 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    You can say neither side wants peace but that's not the whole issue. The question is whether both sides want equality. Peace through total dominance by one side over the other is useless. Peace through equality is what we wanted in Ireland and then in northern Ireland.

    I bring it back to my earlier question which nobody attempted to answer: I agree isreal has the right to exist and defend itself. Do you agree Palestine has the right to exist and who should defend it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    It's not about opinion, it's about a poster ignoring basic facts. What if a poster says Russia are and good guys and Ukraine are the bad guys, is this perfectly ok because opinion is more important than facts?

    Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing, this is a 100% fact just like the way Dublin and Ireland are not the same thing, you cannot blame children for what terrorists are doing.

    Hamas are scum and I would love them to release the hostages but for them to stop Israel need to agree to a peace deal. Why should Irish people call for this solution when Israel are not willing to agree to a ceasefire or a peace agreement. The USA have been pleading with Israel to make a peace deal and Israel are still not doing this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭randd1


    Like I said, at this stage, I don't really care.

    But honestly, a two state solution would be best, in my view. So yeah, I'd say they have the right to exist and defend themselves in that situation.

    Neither seem to want that though. I just find it increasingly hard to care either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    If the Palestinians were given a state would they ever be happy with their borders? I think not. Palestinians would use the formation of a state as a stepping stone to eliminate Israel.
    Look what they did when they were given control of Gaza (and the Jews there were forcibly removed). Tunnels and rockets became their norm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,919 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Hamas not Palestine, unless you think apples and oranges are the same thing. Nobody is crying about the consequences, we are just explaining to you that you need to talk to terrorists in order to get a solution. Nobody wants more terrorists but killing innocent people tends to create more terrorists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,088 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I can understand how the trouble in the Middle East is getting more and more irrelevant, or interesting, for a lot of folk.

    Maybe not irrelevant, as if there is an all out war, it'll cost us all more in the long run.

    But for any conflict situation to work, there has to be compromise on BOTH sides, and in this conflict it appears neither side is willing to compromise, so any hope of a solution is near null.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It's too simplistic to dismiss the Palestinians as simply not wanting a state, and equal treatment. It's never been tried.

    What makes you so sure they don't want it or wouldn't settle for it like we did in Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    The Palestinians do indeed want a state. Its called Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Lots of irish people weren't hsppy with the border resulting from the 1921 treaty. We faught a civil war over it. But we got over it.

    I don't suppose all isrealis would be happy with agreeing to a Palestinian state either but that's how peace is made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,569 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Negotiations don't happen happen quickly. They take years in most cases and decades in some. They involve lots of cases of parties walking out of talks and resuming months later.

    It's just how these things work, if they work at all



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