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N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    If only the world was as simple as you suggest, and everyone gave driving their 100% attention at all times, and they weren’t in a rush, or distracted. These things happen, so why deliberately add to the confusion with a road layout that is the exact opposite of the expected layout?

    Safe roads are predictable. You don’t have to think about what’s ahead of you, because it’s the same as any other road. Exceptions to standard designs are dangerous simply because drivers have so much experience of the standard design - surprises take time to adapt to. This isn’t my opinion, it’s one of the basic principles of road design.

    The picture below is Carrol’s Cross on N25. It was a notoriously dangerous complex of T-junctions that was re-designed a couple of years ago (although it never had anything as dangerous as that left-turn filter lane on N17). Here’s the equivalent left-turn from that road. The overall width of the road surface is similar to N17.

    (Source: N25 - Google Maps - you can see the other two junctions to the west of this point)

    This has the “normal” arrangement of lanes at a T junction, and it also uses islands to prevent drivers overtaking left-turners (a particular safety issue here). It wouldn’t cost much to implement something like this at N17/R293 as an interim measure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    The Ballymote turn-off also has the risk factors increased due to coming just after the last section where safe overtaking is possible for southbound traffic for quite a while. Similarly, for northbound traffic there has just been a laughably short overtaking lane section where drivers often exceed the speed limit to try and clear slow moving HGVs and other vehicles.

    As a result, you often get traffic approaching from both directions at quite high speeds.

    The junction design impedes visibility for traffic emerging from the Ballymote road - combine that with the traffic trying to enter a road where traffic is approaching at high speeds and it's a recipe for disaster



  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭I told ya


    It's still a bog standard T junction, albeit on a busy road. Still no excuse to proceed past the Stop sign into oncoming traffic.

    What do you think would happen if you did that in your driving test? Or pulled out in front of a Garda car?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The thing is humans are not perfect, we all make mistakes. Road design should make it harder for us to make mistakes by e.g. having good sightlines at junctions, or traffic calming etc.

    A better designed junction would see less drivers make that mistake of pulling out while there is still oncoming traffic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    On the road every day we see bad drivers acting like idiots. We also see normally good drivers that make mistakes.

    Piss poor design, like the Ballymote turn-off, make mistakes more likely to happen, and create situations where bad drivers are even more likely to do something stupid.

    The bad design doesn't excuse the idiot van driver who pulled out when he couldn't see that the road was not clear. What a good design would have done is prevented the idiot van driver from making that mistake in the first place.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    No, the whole point is that it's not a bog-standard T-junction. If it was a standard layout, the van would have been safe to pull out when it did.

    The N17 is arranged in three lanes here in a configuration that makes accidents more likely. (From the other direction, making right-turners off N17 share a lane with through traffic is equally dangerous).

    The quickest, cheapest, safety improvement on this road would be to hatch out that left-turn lane.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Jesus buddy, he was a split second away from a high speed collision, can you not go easy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't think anyone is defending the design of the junction, but the junction design doesn't absolve the idiot who pulled out in front of oncoming traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭elchupanebrey


    See this on many roads. Dive bomb across the lanes and hope for the best. Unfortunately doesn't always have a happy ending.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    There is definitely at least 1 poster defending the design of the junction.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122527407/#Comment_122527407



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Have another look at that dashcam footage... In this case, the guy in the van wasn't dashing across the road, he was turning directly into oncoming traffic. It's pretty obvious that he thought that this was his correct lane.

    If this wasn't someone just arrived from a country where they drive on the right (and I'll hold my hands up and say that I've made similar mistakes while driving abroad), then you've got to put some of the blame on the junction design here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    I've watched the footage at slow speed. From the very start, the van driver is completely blinded to the oncoming car, by the SUV exiting.

    When the bigger van in front of @joujoujou passes the junction, then the van driver starts to move and only then does the oncoming car come into view. So I would say it's a design problem. That exit lane is causing a massive blind spot.

    @KrisW1001 I don't think they're initially turning into oncoming traffic, but do suddenly turn more sharply when they see @joujoujou moving into the other lane to avoid them.



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