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The decline of FG?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,244 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I fancy a lot of these 'reliable sources' are like a child's invisible friends -manifestations of their fears and fantaisies rather than anything real.
    Would be really interesting what effect FF and FG taking the electorate for granted and then pretending in a campaign that they are offering something different. would have.
    Hope the source doesn't talk to the media, some of them would love a story like this. Potential coalition partners might not be too happy to know that the programme for government has already been agreed either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Home ownership was slightly lower in 2020 at 69%. Grew 1.1% by the end of 2022.

    Not disputing your figures, genuinely though I thought home ownership was higher in 2020 than it is now. Notable that you do use a 2022 statistic mind, I presume that's because that's the latest available data. In any case the change was minimal so it still doesn't explain why support would be higher or lower 5 years on

    But thats indicative of not voting for a party, ironically; not believing they will be able to do what they say they will do.

    There's nothing ironic about it, in fact that's exactly why so many don't vote FFG. They don't believe they will be able to fulfill their promises. And in fairness they have history in this sense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Has the early budget been announced yet? If not then all this is pure speculation.

    SF were polling 21% a week before the last Local Elections where they eventually got 10.7% of the seats so I would take opinion polls with a pinch of salt as well. Especially when it comes to a GE and the TV debates can expose the FFG leaders for their incompetence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yep, 2022 was the latest data i could find.

    Know what you mean about FFG not fulfilling their promises in full, but as they are still the leading first preference party, the majority must still have more faith in them then they do in SF or FF.

    It comes down to the same point in the end. Not who is going to do a perfect job (nobody is, we all know that) but who is going to do the best job.

    It seems the electorate still think FFG is the best way forward, overall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭dasa29


    As far as I know the Budget will be a week early on 1st of October rather then the 8th October. But I think given two Bills relating to the budget have to be passed before calling an Election, for me the earliest it could be is between 8th Nov and 23rd Nov. Also just looked at the dates and if the Election is called on say 15th Oct, 18 days is 2nd Nov and 25 days is 8th Nov.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,884 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Well FG have the Trinity Seanad seats nailed down anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Cricket nearly became a sport of the GAA back at its foundation. It was only defeated by a small number of votes from the Kerry delegation.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    All that might indeed come to pass, and certainly your scenario is highly likely. But until there's an official announcement I wouldn't be getting too worried



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    There's a lot of these distraction news stories going around at the moment... I wonder is it just silly season or is there a new bad story about to break for FFG?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,244 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where does the national team play at the minute? Used to go to Armagh with a relative who was mad into the game, good day out but like golf it takes a big chunk out of your day to follow it or play it. I give both sports up for that reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,884 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,615 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They can announce a date, but nothing legally starts until the Dáil is dissolved.

    You cannot do a 2 month campaign like the UK does, 30 days is the absolute max. Its basically either a 3 or 4 week campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Thankfully

    You could reasonably assume that whatever date they announce for the election will come true mind. Be nice if they had it on the same date as the Locals and Euros were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Having a GE on the same day as the Local and Euro elections would be a disaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yep, and I dont believe FG have all their candidate places filled yet, so perhaps more time needed to prepare the runners and riders.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I love these comments that make explicit statements without any explanation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,615 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I can give you two reasons it would be a very bad idea.

    Firstly, it would be an even greater mess in terms of the count length - even splitting the ballots would take twice as long; and tallying would fall to bits. Every party wants the tally data.

    Secondly, the same people can and do run in all three elections. There are days where some candidates would probably win all three (Ciaran Cuffe got elected to both DCC and Europe on the same day in 2019 and would probably have won a Dáil seat too then or 2020 if he'd run; a Green candidate topped the poll in his old constituency).

    This would cause a mix of immediate by-elections, council co-optees for the entire term (already happened with Paddy Holohan winning two seats on the same council; and Sharon Keoghan in 2019 - but it would become extremely common) and MEP replacement lists for the entire term - there are always people who want Europe over the Dáil and vice versa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,487 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You have explained it in a very common sense way. I would have thought it needed no explanation, especially as anyone who followed politics recently would have seen the Holohan issue as well as the Peader Tobin issue where he said he wouldn't take the seat in Europe if he won.

    Amazing that it needed to be explained.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    With regard to the longer count length I'd argue it's a symbol of democracy in action and not really an issue at all. If candidates want to run in 3 elections that's their choice, the govt could always legislate to ban the practice as it's a silly one anyway

    There is also a few upsides that you may not have considered

    Filling the Dail, Seanad, Council and European seats in one day creates a more unified party distribution across the political spectrum.

    There would also be fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often and politicians wouldn't need to be calling to our doors looking for local or European seats just to do the exact same thing in a few months time

    As an example, under the current schedule, SF could rise to power in a few months time in the Dail while we know the Seanad will likely be filled with the civil war party candidates because of how the local elections went for them



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭moon2


    You could have just said:

    You have explained it in a very common sense way.

    Thanks!

    Presumably one of the benefits of a discussion forum is that participants can learn. Being sarky for no apparent reason doesn't help anyone.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Local and European elections are for a fixed term and everyone across Europe votes the same week.

    General Elections can be called at any time, and a Government isn’t necessarily going to last the full term.

    This is very basic Junior Cert level stuff.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,615 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I don't consider your interlinked first and third points to be upsides.

    There is also the massive problem that Governments fall, with no potential replacement available without a new election. Fixed terms don't work in our system.

    Would you have been happy with FF hanging on til June 2012 (the 5 year anniversary of the previous term), unable to actually pass any legislation; just because the election date was fixed? Or would you have suggested that the incoming Government from the Feb 2011 election only got 16 months, to return to a cycle?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Not controlling the Seanad would be functionally meaningless to a SF government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I was specifically working on the basis of this year where they could have had the GE at the same time as the LE, Since we're going to the polls anyway in the next few weeks again

    Legally speaking the Seanad need to also pass legislation before it becomes law. It would help if there was a govt majority there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,615 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Seanad can only delay not fully block bills; 11 Taoiseach nominees and most likely a transfer deal with whoever they go in to Government with would probably scrape a majority

    However, they only had 7 Senators based on the big 2014 LE base anyway; the other parties are more easily able to get votes from Independents so there is zero guarantee that fiddling with the election dates would help at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Suggesting the longer count length being a symbol of democracy in action is seriously clutching at straws. While the length of the count might not really be an issue, there certainly isn't any benefit in extending the count to include three elections. Cutting short a relatively popular government (likely to be returned anyway) just to align with the EU election date would be extremely undemocratic. The negatives for democracy would far outweigh the positives.

    An actual symbol of democracy in action would be separate election days with focused campaigns. The lines between local issues and national issues and EU level issues are already quite blurred in this country, horsing all together on one election day would further blur it. It would be impossible to run three dedicated campaigns focusing on the relevant issues at each level simultaneously. There wouldn't be time for meaningful debates at each level and the public would zone out from all the noise.

    And now that you are saying you were talking specifically about this year, the advantages you put forward of "fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often" is negligible. That one school day saved is unlikely to be replicated again for the remainder of the school lives of current school children. The financial and environmental savings would be barely above 0.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Suggesting the longer count length being a symbol of democracy in action is seriously clutching at straws. While the length of the count might not really be an issue, there certainly isn't any benefit in extending the count to include three elections. Cutting short a relatively popular government (likely to be returned anyway) just to align with the EU election date would be extremely undemocratic. The negatives for democracy would far outweigh the positives.

    An actual symbol of democracy in action would be separate election days with focused campaigns. The lines between local issues and national issues and EU level issues are already quite blurred in this country, horsing all together on one election day would further blur it. It would be impossible to run three dedicated campaigns focusing on the relevant issues at each level simultaneously. There wouldn't be time for meaningful debates at each level and the public would zone out from all the noise.

    And now that you are saying you were talking specifically about this year, the advantages you put forward of "fewer costs for the exchequer and the environment, schools would be closed less often" is negligible. That one school day saved is unlikely to be replicated again for the remainder of the school lives of current school children. The financial and environmental savings would be barely above 0.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Middle of a housing crisis but let's give the developers another 12 months. Political open-goal here

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0820/1465844-ireland-politics/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    P earse Doherty delighted. He was shouting on the news tonight. Why he has to continually shout is beyond me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    He usually leaves the shouting to the Dáil where the increasingly useless SF social media team upload a clip of it to Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok.

    He was actually shouting at the camera out in the wild this evening. Bizarre to be honest. Does he think it signifies passion or something?

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,487 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This could be a serious mistake by Fianna Fail. The Greens are rightly up in arms about this. There is a process to have land dezoned if farmers don't want to pay the tax.

    The clever thing to do would be to announce that the tax was deferred for a year to allow those farmers time to apply to have their land dezoned. That would move things along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Farmers had plenty of time to de-zone as the same proposal got deferred last year as well. Moreover FFG had the time to amend the legislation to exclude active farmers. Something which Pearse Doherty suggested 3 years ago but for some reason went un-noticed

    The truth, of course, is that the housing crisis suits landlords and property developers. Hoarding residential zoned land increases the pressures of the housing crisis and makes the landlords and property developers richer so there is a great incentive for this cohort to continue to hoard land.

    At the same time then, many FFG politicians are landlords and by and large landlords and property developers vote for FFG so why would FFG want to actively sort out the housing crisis? All it would do is cost them money and votes. Neither of which are very wise things to be toying with a few months before an election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    At least he's wiling to appear on the news unlike Jack Cowardice Chambers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Health insurance prices are on the rise. Can't help but think that if sláintecare was in place by now instead of the loading that FFG introduced we wouldn't have this new problem

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0821/1466019-vhi-to-increase-premiums-by-average-of-3-5-from-october/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭pureza


    Could you not have combined all that into one post instead of spamming it with three like as if you've a quota to fill or a competition to win with the other thread🤔

    Btw Jack Chambers was on the news twice today talking about this

    Also,its not up to farmers to dezone land they had no hand act or part in zoning in the first place,why should they have the cost of dezoning?

    Councils voted on the zoning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,039 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The obvious answer is that I was replying to 2 separate posts and then quoting a news article showing the in-competencies of the current govt. You choose to ignore this very obvious assumption that most people would make and prefer to make snide personal comments instead of addressing the issues posed.

    A known tactic of the far right… I genuinely worry about the political direction our country is headed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭pureza


    A known Trumpian tactic in recent weeks is to say Kamala Harris is avoiding journalists when CNN fact checked that with several doorstops she did with journalists answering and making time for their questions

    You tried Trumpian tactics yesterday by saying the Finance minister was hiding on the zoning issue when in fact he was interviewed on the news yesterday twice

    Pot Kettle

    And btw,this is the politics forum,you absolutely can put multiple points into one post rather than spamming with multiple posts one after the other

    Noone here has suggested you don't post but in a higher brow discussion forum like this,it's not unreasonable to expect no soap boxing or ranting

    The key word is Discussion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    What stations was Jack Chambers on? I didn't notice him or any FFG on Newstalk and was listening to that most the day. Key word here being "most" before you jump. Whatever way you feel about the multiple posts I'm certainly not being paid per post, if I was there would be a lot lot more of them!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭pureza


    RTÊ radio and tv,which has the largest weekly listenership in Ireland…(JNLR)

    Certainly not the definition of hiding

    Again,on posts,this is a forum,always was ,for quality not quantity

    After hours or the current affairs forum is for the latter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Ah yes the station the govt recently bailed out, was he on the 6:01 or was it the lunchtime broadcast?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,487 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Let me see, the government retained the TV licence and refused to fully bail out RTE by abolishing the TV licence, whereas the opposition wanted the TV licence abolished and the government to then fully bail out RTE. And you are critical of the government????!!!!???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think you are being generous, I recon the opposition would prefer to see RTE go to the wall, or at least see it function on a budget closer to TV3

    But they didn't. They bailed them out despite RTE making zero changes to keep their costs under control. Hardly the definition of independent media now is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,487 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nope, the opposition want political control of RTE and particularly of the current affairs Department. That is why it is so important that RTE has its own independent financing through the TV licence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭Red Silurian




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭pureza


    RTÉ are subject to the same compliance and partiality rules as all other broadcasters in the country

    To suggest otherwise is another falsehood



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,244 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    …and had to be forced to comply with those obligations at the last election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 288 ✭✭mehico


    Why are FF being singled out here? The article is reporting that this would be a government decision or do FF somehow have free rein at the cabinet table?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Tony Groves! Next we go to the Monsanto podcast to hear about ecological biodiversity. This will be followed by listening to David Quinn discuss the most effective forms of reproductive healthcare for women.

    Have we heard a peep from anyone in SF about the extradition of Martin McCauley to Belfast? What's the thinking on it? He was a key member of the Provo Engineering Team, found himself in Colombia exploring the peace process, got a standing ovation at the SF Ard Fheis, and is soon to be on his way to meet the PSNI.

    Being young is a great advantage, since we see the world from a new perspective and we are not afraid to make radical changes - Greta Thunburg



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