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Irish Golfer Modified local rule

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,602 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Interesting. I'd say they're maybe trying to combat drop in entries for events. With big prize pools, banditry must be rife



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭Russman


    Interesting. I guess any organiser is free to stipulate local rules for their competitions. I wonder does it have any bearing on any affiliations they might have ? would a club (as opposed to Irish Golfer) run foul of Golf Ireland if they introduced such a local rule ? I've no idea off the top of my head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,040 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    I suppose it is really no different to a society cut such as we do with Boards Golf Society

    I haven't played in one of these events in many a year now, but I used to think they were supposed to be all inclusive and an official handicap was not necessary. Seems not the case anymore at least.

    Also, they stipulate that SD for round remains on Golf Ireland as normal. Begs the question, is this an official Golf Ireland open competition whereby all scores are automatically submitted? How do they do that? Or do they rely on people just registering their own rounds? Cause I'm sure that lots wouldn't.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,955 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I guess you could just sign in as normal, as far as GI is concerned you're playing off your WHS but when they tally up the scores at the end to find the winners handicaps > 24 are adjusted at that point?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    It's allowed under the rules of golf. I'd argue that all club majors should require a drop down as well.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    Yes they submit all scores back to Golf Ireland. This come in quite a few years ago, so effectively it's the same as playing an open comp.

    As far as I know, official handicaps were always a condition of entry to Golf Ireland comps. The only thing that changed is they now automatically get recorded as a score on your record.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭blue note


    It certainly is interesting. These big prize open comps are something I'm really not familiar with. I can imagine how they'd have issues with huge amounts of bandits when the prizes are so extravagant. It's one of the reasons I don't like extravagant prizes - it encourages handicap cheating.

    Most measures suggested to deal with handicap issues since the introduction of WHS seem to focus on the really high handicaps and beginners. And that's fine - there are issues there. But generally speaking, when I hear about 50+ point scores they tend to be in random comps - midweek opens and the like. But when people are getting exercised talking about the problem they talk about club majors - Captains prize most often. For me these are two very different issues. The rapidly improving guys who got big handicaps often have no sense of the Captains prize being significantly different to other comps. And more importantly, they're not trying to cheat. So if they're going well in a comp they want to return the best score possible, irrespective of the prize on offer.

    The stories I hear of bandits winning Captains prizes tend to be seasoned golfers, not playing off massively high handicaps, but rather the likes of guys playing off a high teens handicap when most would say should be off a low teen handicap. And they're the guys who were at it before WHS ever came along. So requiring lads to have 20 scores, be a member over a year, having a max handicap - these rules will actually just help them win as it will take away the potential of a really high handicap coming in with a great score.

    That odds table is hard to argue with. I'm assuming that it's accurate and I must admit I'm surprised by some of the odds on it, but I won't go off on a tangent on that. But analysing players scores over the club majors to see how often they're coming in with anomalies would be very interesting. I'm not sure where you go from there though, it would be extremely difficult to come up with a fair club rule for it.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    When these comps started there was a perennial winner of multi tournaments every year and it was much talked about on fora.

    Nothing wrong with what they are doing, a good step in the right direction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26 AlanWatts


    I played in one of these a good few years back. Once was enough. One team of four (all same surname) each took a big prize ….. nett/gross scores/longest drive/closest to pin. What are those odds? Same surname across most events that year.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Unfortunately whilst a lot of posters will talk about bandits etc and manipulating WHS etc there still exists the magic pencil



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭big_drive


    I've never played one of these events, was thinking about Tralee but see its booked up. Probably a cheaper option anyway would be the scratch cup route to play the better courses



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭Russman


    Yeah, I tend to agree with a lot of this tbh. I'm pretty much in the camp of banditry (in the sense of intentional handicap building) not being rife and it mostly being a product of what WHS is. That's not to say it doesn't exist of course, there are bad eggs everywhere. I just geninely think its way overstated at times. We had a situation 2/3 years ago where a guy won a club major, he shot either 41 or 42 pts and won by a few. I actually played with him on the day. He was a high handicapper and got all the usual (mostly) friendly ribbing about it. What nobody took into account was that he played early, the weather changed completely mid morning and only about 50 people actually returned cards. Yet the whispers were there.

    I mean, lets be honest, most golfers were fairly rubbish relative to their handicap under CONGU and almost never played to it and would still only get a shot back in a year. Now, under WHS most have several shots more than they had, and their HC is more reflective of how they are actually playing. In fact, most will have beaten their handicap probably 4 times in their last 20 rounds anyway. If you have a field of 120 wildly inconsistent amateurs, almost all of whom will have beaten their handicap a few times relatively recently, chances are someone is going to shoot a very good score on a given day. I also know I'm probably very much in the minority in that opinion !!

    Classics with big prizes were always a problem, and as slave alludes to, the magic pencil is undefeated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,602 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    The repercussion of this though, in essence, means the system dumbs down to your level, rather than you coming up to it.

    In essence a system that says...its OK to be bad...we'll keep giving you shots until you reach a number that makes your life easier.

    I like the theory of the system, have said it before. And I think it's a reasonable for me.

    Irrespective of banditry, I just think its a system not built for the nature of Irish golf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,903 ✭✭✭Russman


    Ohh I agree totally. When WHS was introduced I thought the theory behind it was great and it made perfect sense (I suppose I still do, in a way), but I've really come full 180 on it tbh with regard to its real world application. I think any system that has expected scores, maximum scores, assumed scores just can't be good.

    Totally not ideal for Irish golf as you say. I think its much more suited to say, Florida resort golf, with fairly consistent weather/conditions etc.



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