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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • #29882
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,506 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534201#Comment_122534201

    Would you implement a hard border with NI?

    It's either a common travel area or it's not. It will be abused if it's open.

    For the record I do think we will need border controls with the UK soon. But I don't see people calling for it...why not? That said, border controls with NI will not prevent crossings. It would be a sieve.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #29883
    Headshot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,520 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534459#Comment_122534459

    I agree with you but also there's no excuse for how that gentleman speaks to them at the end, an absolute pig

    We think he's the manager of the place, a horrible horrible individual



  • #29884
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534399#Comment_122534399

    I have a feeling that this Resort hotel will be getting a very negative review on Booking.com !



  • #29885
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭prunudo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534459#Comment_122534459

    Thats because the ngo's are in their ears, filling them with every trick in the book.



  • #29886
    Gusser09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,645 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I would have zero issues having a border with NI at this stage. If that's where the majority of these people are coming from then it makes perfect sense. If it's done properly then it won't be too much of an inconvenience.

    Either we go for a United Ireland where we can control the ports up there or we put a border in. One or the other.



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  • #29887
    Ozvaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Ozvaldo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534399#Comment_122534399

    No chef on hand lousy



  • #29888
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,315 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534371#Comment_122534371

    Another ground breaking contribution.

    What are you even talking about at this point 😂



  • #29889
    twinytwo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,315 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534469#Comment_122534469

    No - we both know that would be impractical.

    As for the discussion, the government is unwilling at least publicly to admit we have a problem with the numbers coming into the country and/or the way they are doing it.

    Cant fix an issue if they refuse to admit there is one.



  • #29890
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534315#Comment_122534315

    Well, as is common on here, you seem to have leapt to comment on what you think I'm saying — rather than what I actually am saying.

    I was making the point, aimed at a particular poster who specifically referred to overpopulation as an issue in the context of this thread, which you have kindly reminded us is a thread about refugees. I made the point that it seems odd to me to evoke overpopulation as an issue in the context of refugees and that it also seems to me that the gripe is really simply one of people thinking there are too many of them or they aren't being handled well. That's a legitimate concern in its own right that doesn't need to be dressed up as a concern as to overpopulation and — in my own opinion — is indicative of the trend on here to be alarmist and constantly tie everything to some doomsday scenario (be it overpopulation, the fall of Irish society and western civilisation generally, the obliteration of Irish culture, the "replacement" of Irish people).

    You don't seem to be disputing that point. You're just making points to me that aren't actually reflective of what I'm saying.



  • #29891
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534721#Comment_122534721

    Apologies if I'm mixing you up with another poster.

    But wasn't deportations your big thing? Weren't you the poster who said that ultimately we'll simply have to be able to deport large amounts of people?

    Maybe you've changed your mind, fair enough.



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  • #29892
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,506 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534726#Comment_122534726

    Yeah fine but what are you recommending in relation to the CTA? We can all give out and moan but have you practical suggestions?

    You said "Work with the UK government to prevent the abuse of the CTA."...so let's brainstorm...

    I waltzed thru Stansted last week without having to show my passport to anyone except the Ryanair guy at the gate who was only matching the passport name to the boarding pass. He couldn't care less.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #29893
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534801#Comment_122534801

    So you presented the correct matching and valid documentation to the boarding agent so he did his job but"he couldn't care less"

    So if you presented no passport at the boarding gate I am sure the agent there would care a lot more and you'd be denied boarding… or he would lose his job and his company fined.



  • #29894
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,506 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534983#Comment_122534983

    You're missing the point entirely. I am talking about the lack of passport controls. He only cared that I had a passport and the names matched. A driving license would also have worked. He didn't care if I had a proper visa for Eire or anything like that. He didn't ask the purpose of my visit. He did not scan the passport to check for issues. Not his job. There is no passport control until you get to Ireland and that's where people claim asylum. I understand there can be random checks from immigration officers but I have never witnessed it. Easy ditch the passport between the Ryanair gate guy and Irish "passport control" too as we all know. Actually the Irish passport control was 2 lads in Shannon at midnight waving everyone through quickly with a glance at passport.

    So expert, would you abolish the CTA? Would you implement a border controls/check from NI?

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #29895
    Ozvaldo
    Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Ozvaldo


    I Would prefer a hard border with the North



  • #29896
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,969 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534201#Comment_122534201

    There are two reasons why they are making their way from Northern Ireland.

    1: Obviously the UK social welfare system is not attractive enough. And Ireland's is better.

    2: They were refused asylum in the UK and took off to pursue their remaining option. The Republic of Ireland.

    It's not rocket science to fix both of these.

    Limit their social welfare to a few Euros a week.

    Stop giving the NGOs tent money. May as well be pissing taxpayers money up against a wall.

    Request access to the UK asylum database.



  • #29897
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535291#Comment_122535291

    Not much point giving it thought. There is no realistic sustainable future of this country where there is a hard border with the North. There isn't any way that the governments either side of the border have the appetite for miring themselves once more in the torturous issue of how you effectively police the border (to hard border standards). The most we will see are the odd checks and targeted interceptions.

    What's more, the British have the stronger hand in this. There is no incentive for them to administer a hard border (and to co-fund that administration) as the easy movement of migrants from North to South is likely to be the more attractive flow path than South to North. There doesn't appear to be much incentive for the Northern executive and British state to plug that gap.



  • #29898
    thomas 123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534759#Comment_122534759

    maybe you thought twintytwo was in the cohort with the mental illness? Wasn’t that you who said that?

    No idea why deporting illegal migrants should be seen as a taboo subject that we can’t talk about.



  • #29899
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534399#Comment_122534399

    I've a solution for her and anyone else not happy with the conditions….

    Feel free to get yourself to the airport, get on a plane, and go try a country that might be more to your liking. If they got themselves to Ireland from wherever, that should be an easy enough task.

    No one is forcing her or anyone to stay. It's not a prison camp.



  • #29900
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535012#Comment_122535012

    CTA is there for a reason and is used daily in the thousands by the legal documented citizens of the UK&Ireland, so abolishing it would serve no purpose and would not stop the daily flow of illegal migrants paying €150 to get driven over the border from Belfast to the IPAS office on Mount St.



  • #29901
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535401#Comment_122535401

    I said something related but it certainly wasn't my intention to claim anybody was part of a cohort with mental illness.

    I don't believe discussing deportations is taboo I just recall @twinytwo as having made strong claims on the subject previously, but as I said, maybe it was a different poster.



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  • #29902
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,506 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535424#Comment_122535424

    So no concrete suggestions then? Continue as we are and have a good moan?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #29903
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534567#Comment_122534567

    Not trying to be cheeky here but taking a view of "if it's done properly it won't be too much of an inconvenience" could be applied to pretty much anything.

    It's not just how you actually implement a border, but also how you make that implementation sustainable and maintain perpetual public buy-in. I'm from just north of the border myself and I really don't see how you would go about getting buy in from the border communities on a permanent basis.

    I've said this many times on here. A fully focused operation involving armed British soldiers, helicopters, watchtowers, checkpoints and surveillance technology did not manage to prevent the routine movement of people and contraband across the border for decades. A much less-equipped and less-resourced effort by the Irish state to harden the border — with what will be (at best) half-hearted co-operation from the British if they even co-operate at all — will amount to little more than ineffective and potentially extremely costly (economically and politically) optics.



  • #29904
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535613#Comment_122535613

    Oh you want to draw me into your good moan? No thanks.



  • #29905
    thomas 123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535543#Comment_122535543

    ah, since we are on the subject of previous contributions this is exactly what you said, this just serves as a reminder to anyone trying to engage in good faith conversations with you demonstrating how you feel about anyone with different views to yourself:

    “Just a reminder that a lot of the views expressed here regarding people who seek asylum and other immigrants can be indicative of mental health issues”

    I’ll leave out the latter part where you suggested posters should seek help and linked off to a service.

    Since you didn’t clarify which posts you were referring to in that catch all “reminder”… one can only assume you meant anyone with an opposing view to yourself on this matter.

    — ——————— -------

    Back on the subject of deportation - would you take issue with someone being deported back to Jordan(like in the case above) ? Personally I feel palastinians and within Israel but especially in Gaza could be considered refugees - but did they not already get somewhere safe in Jordan if that’s the route they took to get to Ireland? Furthermore did they not get to safety in Turkey? So why should we entertain asylum claims from people who got their much needed safety but seek an upgrade on their prospects via illegal means and under bogus pretense… obviously the government and state bodies ,

    Responsible for this have proven that they cannot/will not do it but the question I’m asking is why should we not do it?



  • #29906
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,037 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535291#Comment_122535291

    Actively discriminating against nearly 1 million Irish citizens in Northern Ireland in order to keep a few asylum seekers out would not seem the wisest of policies.



  • #29907
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,506 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535662#Comment_122535662

    I am not the one moaning.

    Wait, are you the guy that was on about some made up story involving his "cousin's brother"?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #29908
    creeper1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 696 ✭✭✭creeper1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122534485#Comment_122534485

    What did he say that was so bad?

    We don't know the context and I can surmise that they have been giving trouble and making demands.

    He says they will lose privileges. They must have done something for that action to be taken.



  • #29909
    Panthro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,814 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Hard border up North is not a solution. Still say we need to work with UK to protect around both islands. Anyone arriving illegally on a boat to UK mainland or Ireland, ship em back.



  • #29910
    MegamanBoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535663#Comment_122535663

    I think the relationship between some anti-asylum and anti-immigration sentiment and possible mental health issues is well established, and I posted the same out of concern for people's welfare.


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/pops.12034


    https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Directories/Library-and-Archive/resource_documents/rd2010_Xenophobia.pdf


    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2007-13595-012


    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00027642241240344


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/pops.12540 


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201801/the-psychology-racism


    https://www.simplypsychology.org/xenophobia-fear-of-strangers.html


    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797620929977

    Stating that isn't intended to, or should, invalidate anybody's political beliefs. I think there's some, not all, otherwise very decent people who might espouse these views as a coping mechanism during a period of social, economic and political uncertainty. Likewise for some people embracing anti-immigration ideologies might be a risk factor leading to worse mental health outcomes.

    Here's the boards thread on mental health supports around Covid-19 which I think might be helpful if some people are concerned about how they might be feeling.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058062109/mental-health-and-covid-19#latest



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  • #29911
    thomas 123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122535952#Comment_122535952

    so I’ve looked at all bar the last 2, you sort of lost credibility with each link you posted for the following reasons:

    1. The attached papers mostly reference immigration on the whole. I’m sorry but it has been clearly stated since the start of the thread that this conversation is around Ireland refugees policy not general immigration
    2. The third last link you shared talks about racism. I think this point speaks for itself.
    3. I suspect you didn’t post the titles as that would clearly show the above two points.
    4. Many of the links shared refer to anxiety as the primary symptom. Are citizens wrong to be anxious?
    5. Do you have access to all of those papers in full or are you depending on the abstract to inform yourself?
    6. I can’t comment on the data as none appears to be present to back up the claims, but if you have access to some Of those platforms you might be able to show some tables or other data sets that confirm a link between people with mental illness(ideally not anxiety) and having an opinion on refugee policy.



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