Winter Fuel Payments for pensioners on 52k per year, Is Our welfare system out of touch?

Where did their high income come from?

A previous high income I guess, which they paid tax on, so what exactly is your issue?

That's my point, they availed of a very generous tax break.

There's a lot more than "a very small cohort" putting money into pensions with 40% tax relief.

Look at the huge industry that has developed to meet the needs of these savers.

To be honest, I am not sure what your point is on the tax free pension contributions and this thread Ultimately to be pensionable, it has to earned income. These people that the OP and other mentioned with big pensions worked for them. The tax break means nothing, it's still their money. They were not just given them. All through their working lives they paid tax, and perhaps benefited little from welfare during that time.

Meanwhile there is a significant cohort of people that for various reasons contributed little to nothing, got or are getting.loads of welfare benefits and now see these 'rich former workers' with big pensions as fair game to criticise for getting some State benefits in their later years so they can get even more benefits. As others said, it's just begrudgery.

Personally, I think it's a great idea that older people have free GP cards etc. The State knows these people are more likely to attend for regular check ups where minor medical ailments can be detected early and possibly divert them away from a chronically stretched health service. The State is clearly thinking or playing the long game.

The efforts of the industry to get the €2million cap raised to €5 million recently wouldn't suggest a focus on small savers.

'The tax break means nothing'???? The tax break means a 40% uplift on their pension fund, with tax foregone by the State as a result. If it means nothing, then let's just wipe out the tax break and see how many people reckon it means nothing! They benefit hugely from growth of the tax free amount too of course.

They're also far less likely to pay tax on that money, certainly not ALL of that money, given the generous tax breaks for older people.

If boards still exists in 20 to 30 years I can see this thread being resurrected and some posters having a very different outlook!

Let the pensioners enjoy their money and free time. It's the only time in life anyone can have both at the same time.

exactly, then the very same people will be crying into their cornflakes demanding that the Government increase the pension rate and give everyone the fuel allowance!

Many of these pensioners worked in very different times, mortgage rates were 17/18%, there was no insulation in houses, ice and condensation on the inside of windows. There were NO treats!! Everyday now we "treat" ourselves because "we're worth it"!! Netflix, Spotify, Amazon Prime memberships, new phone every few years, at least one holiday a year, lots of weekend breaks, lavish weddings with 3 day hen parties…………NONE of that was part of life for these pensioners, they scrimped and saved and used every last bit of food in the fridge.

I know this because despite my father having a great business and a wife and 7 kids, my parents were frugal and always saved for the future (for us),grew all their fruit and vegetables, hens in the garden for eggs, a holiday once a year in Donegal. My father lost all his money which he had invested from his business in the Black Monday crash in 1987. We never had daily treats of chocolate or cakes. Life now is luxury beyond belief compared to then. But are we happier? The answer to that is obvious!

Let these people enjoy those few golden years before bad health takes over!

That family of 4 would be entitled to about €200 a week Working Family Payment. They'd also have full medical cards and assuming 2 children they'd have school clothing allowance and plenty of other benefits too. But most of all they'd have an incentive to work rather than be on social welfare

BTW the married pensioners on 52k will be paying about €3000 tax and also one day you will be a pensioner and be glad of the scheme if your total pension is 26k or less

I suppose the PRSI they paid during their careers just vanished?
(Yes I know it's paying for the pensions of those who retired when they were working, but you understand the notion of contribution)

They avoided paying tax on it by putting it into a pension fund, enjoying considerable growth on the tax free amount, and benefiting from the many tax breaks for older people when they come to draw down the income in retirement. They could be drawing it down from age 50, if they've left the employment in question, making it a legal, transparent tax avoidance scheme.

And yes, I've availed of that tax relief too, you'd be a fool not to. That doesn't make it right.

income increase for those in employment is 1.8% for 2023/24. By contrast, many of those in ­receipt of welfare payments are ­comparatively better off. The 157,000 people on disability allowances will get a net increase in incomes of 3.8%, as will the 146,000 on Jobseeker’s Allowance.

This could backfire badly. The generations priced out of housing (or even renting) seeing yet more resources going to the generations above them who "had it all" won't be happy.

Of course we are too generous to pensioners. But until the younger generations start voting in greater numbers, this will remain the case. Is it fair? No. Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. But it's realpolitik unfortunately.

I never mentioned food stamps so don't know why you threw that at me.

If there is a particular policy failing, the most efficient way to address this is to direct funding towards that issue. If children are getting insufficient nutrition, provide them with school meals. If children are not attending school, increase the number of education officers to address this.

Increasing child benefit does not address these policy failings, it just throws money randomly at the problem. We end up with money being spent inefficiently and the problem not being resolved.

Your policy of selling a house not being grounds for eviction will deny a generation the chance to buy their own house, as the only market for the house will be a landlord, most likely an institutional landlord.

Private rents are controlled already. It's the reason a few of the REITs are looking at pulling out. A 2% rental increase cap is unsustainable when house maintenance costs are raising by about 5%+ a year.

An eviction ban for sale or where the LL wanted the house themselves or for a family member would mean that as tenants leave LL would not relet. It nothing about grasping nettles. It plain economics.

Uneconomical rents where LL see the risk/cost/ rent profile go out of balance will see LL sell when they get the opportunity. I have a rental, as it is it is now in a rent pressure zone, this means when the present tenant exits whether in 2 or 5 years time I will have to reassess whether its make sense to continue renting it out or do I sell it.

Definitely if it there was a regulation regarding no vacant possession if I wanted to sell it I would not be reletting the property.

We have the highest child benefit rates in Europe (other than Switzerland). There is no need to increase child benefit. Much better than any available funding is directed towards other areas of child support, common across Europe. Most other countries have tax credits for children, so that working parents get some relief.

As for no-fault evictions, you would need a constitutional amendment on private property to permanently ban evictions when a house is sold, particularly when there are rent restrictions in place. Such a measure would reduce the number of houses available for young people to buy to live in.