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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Was that reply meant for me? Nothing that I've said would contradict what you have written

    The people doing the most scaremongering and crying about climate change

    Such as who? Can you give an example of this?

    What does a kWh of electricity cost in Germany?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,205 ✭✭✭✭JRant




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Latest available from Bundesbank

    Imagine spending a couple of trillion on Energiewende policies

    And still endup with 6x average daily emissions of France next door (who spent a 10th of that on nuclear)

    And to add insult to injury one of the higher prices in Europe (tho we of course are determined to outdo the Germans)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Well considering Energiewende is still ongoing and Germany have a similar market to us, whereby the highest priced unit is what all the suppliers get paid, it is not much of a surprise.

    France runs mainly on relatively clean nuclear while Germany has decommissioned most (all?) of its reactors before doing the same to their oil, gas and coal plants. Once the fossil fuel plants are gone there should be a major shift in that figure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    It’s been 25 years almost into their Energiewende adventure with little to show for the trillions spent beside some of the largest electric prices and continued reliance on all the neighbours

    Here is a scathing IEEE article from 4 years ago

    Instead of learning from mistakes of others we want (and are) to follow the exact same path of stupidity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You forgot the annual emissions reduction of 3.5%, which is the only thing that would realistically have happened by now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Mostly thanks to switch to gas and overall reduction in German economic output as their economy has flatlined for decades and … biomass



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    A switch to gas from nuclear would in theory increase GHG emissions or do you "believe" differently. As for the economic output the stats suggest you are incorrect 🧐🧐🧐

    https://kpmg.com/de/en/home/insights/overview/economic-key-facts-germany.html#:~:text=With%20a%20Gross%20Domestic%20Product,making%20it%20Europe's%20largest%20economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A switch from nuclear to gas generation will not just in theory increase emissions, it will in reality.

    Germany`s last 3 nuclear power plants prior to being shut down had a nameplate capacity of 4.285 GW with a capacity factor of 93% (4 GW). Germany in Feb. 2024 announced the construction of 4 large gas powered plants with a nameplate capacoty of 10GW. With a capacity factor of 55% they would generate 5.5 GW. Those 4 gas plants are to cost €16 Billion, and that doesn`t include the cost of LNG terminals which will be required to supply them.

    Those gas plants are required because not only have remewables not filled the gap due to Germany shutting down its last nuclear plants, they are required because renewables are not even keeping pace with demand.

    Germany`s own climate agency in 2023 said Germany was going to miss its 2030 target of cutting emissions by 60%, so those gas fired plants are not going to reduce that percentage. They are going to increase it after a spend of at least €20 Billion.

    German greens, similar to or own lot, have no real interest in reducing emissions. It`s all to do with the ideology. Even Greata Thunberg could not see any sense in Germany shutting down it`s nuclear power plants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    Be as distrustful of biomass here as across the Irish Sea.

    Drax hit with £25m penalty after 'lying' about wood pellets (businessplus.ie)

    When is sustainable not sustainable.

    25 million fine is but a drop in the ocean so long as the subsidies keep coming.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes I think most greens, except the german ones obviously, were scratching their heads on that one. To go nuclear or fossil free you need to have the equivalent renewable capacity first

    Sadly nuclear in Ireland is dead. It's minimum 5 years away, assuming planning and construction are timely, good luck getting planning for it though before anything else

    Better for us to harness the near unlimited wind power we have here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The only biomass that ever made sense was sugar cane alcohol in Brazil. Drax burning wood is nothing short of an outright fraud so with this fine I have no idea what was left to lie about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    I recommend you go here

    The graphs back up the 3 points I made

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I don`t think nuclear here is as dead as some would like to believe. A Think Ireland survey not long ago showed there has been a major change in how people now look on it. Especially the younger generation. I don`t see how planning permission would be more difficult to get than in countries that are using and building nuclear power plants. Especially if those within a certain radius of a plant were given free electricity.

    As we are now, where wind is concerned, is that we have a 2050 plan that nobody can give a cost for, that includes hydrogen because of the intermittent undependable nature of wind that nobody knows if it will work or not, and it would still leave us in 2050 exactly where we are today. Having to rely on fossil fuels to provide 4 GW of generation in 2050.

    It`s not a plan. It`s a green uncosted wish list that like Germany is not going to provide the generation required, reduce the price of electricity, or decrease emissions. All it would achieve is state bankrupcy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Honestly I'd prefer to believe nuclear isn't dead but our own green party don't want it so what hope to the rest of us have?

    We're probably lucky in that we live in a country where wind is a reliable source of continuous electricity, we really should embrace it instead of always looking for an alternative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    “reliable source of continuous electricity”

    hahahahahha

    Hahahahahha

    Hahahahha

    🤣

    That’s 6.5GW of installed wind right now, if you had a car that could only drive 5% of advertised range you wouldn’t call that “reliable”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,931 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i cant ever see nuclear being an option here in my lifetime, and im still a couple of years away from 50, we re still a strongly anti-nuclear country, and thats not gonna change anytime soon, theres zero political interest or will, from anyone, so, forget about it, it would only become an option when we start experiencing regular black outs, and by that stage there will be panic stations, and frankly, too bloody late….

    yes we should plough on with renewables as much as possible to try prevent such an outcome, but as it currently looks, thats not looking great!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    plough on with renewables is just a code word for keep burning oil and gas as there is no cheap solution to the random intermittency problem



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,205 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    And you have to ask yourself, why after 25 years is this still the case? It wouldn’t have anything to do with Big Wind lobbying like he’ll in the background to keep the gravy flowing.

    We will never get to the point of having no fossil fuel plants on the grid, in fact as we get more wind it becomes more expensive as more peaking OCCT plants are needed and they are by far the most expensive units on the grid.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The Green Party are presently polling at around 4% and 60% of the age group they received the largest share of their vote from in the last G.E. are in favour of nuclear power. What the green party want is irrelevant. They are only getting away with a lot of their nonsense because they are the wagging tail of this government.

    Wind is not a reliable source of continuous electricity. It is an unreliable intermittent source that greens here are pushing with a plan that is not only not going to leave us with carbon zero generation by 2050, it is so insanely expensive they known if they gave the costs for it they would be laughed out of it. All this so called "plan" will do is bakrupt the country while doing nothing to decrease our emissions and still leave the consummer paying some of the highest prices in the world for electricity.

    Similar to Germany shutting their nuclear power plants it is nothing other than green ideology gone mad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Ploughing on is going to achieve nothing other than throwing good money after bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Current situation is a combination of extension leads to leech from other grids generation, manage peak demand by kicking heavy users off the grid, e.g the likes of Amazon, and supermarkets (freezers) fall back to generators . . . and eventually, force domestic consumers into surge pricing schemes to encourage "demand flexibility" in order to knock 5% off peak Winter demand.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,205 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    That’s it in a nutshell and they aren’t even trying to hide it either. The grid operator has both arms tied behind their backs on this one and they’ll make a good scapegoat for years of terrible government policy decisions.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭creedp


    And Ireland will be patted on the head for leading the charge against global climate change😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,986 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    We will never get to the point of having no fossil fuel plants on the grid

    Fossil fuels are a finite resource.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    They are a finite source that following the path we are on, after spending unknown hundreds of billions would still see us burning the same level of fossils fuels for electricity generation we are burning today, and paying more countless billions in fines for doing so while paying one of the world`s highest prices for electricity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Do you have more information about what fines we will would to pay for electricity generation using fossil fuels?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    One can not harness nearly unlimited wind power. Unless you plan to have on/off grid. Like we will have power when wind is blowing and patiently wait when it does not. Unfortunately it can not happen anyway.

    To even attempt to generate majority of power needed from wind will require tens of thousands of wind turbines and tons of nonexistent power storage. That plan may look good on paper or when politicians yapping around but economy can not and will not support development of such adventure we simply can not afford it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    And so is the wind and solar.

    A lot of people do not realize what wind turbines require for maintenance and production, cost of replacement and the same goes for solar where end of life solar panels are considered hazardous waste. There is not enough silver for example to make enough solar and what silver is used can not be economically recovered back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,986 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Genuine question.

    Do you understand what the word finite means? Because your answer has nothing to do with my 6 word post.

    Alternatives are needed. That's to say nothing about the harm burning fossil fuels do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,986 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Wind and solar aren't finite.

    Of course there is a cost associated with harnessing that power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,769 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think when the power storage gets built it will no longer be non-existent to be fair. As a country we do need to get the finger out on building it though



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Do you have information that after spending hundreds of billions on wind power by 2050 and still generating the same electricity we are now using fossil fuels emitting the same emissions we are now, there will be no penalties imposed. ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I do indeed.

    The same as I understand that none of the materials that would be required for this 2050 offshore wind/hydrogen plan, (even ignoring the unviable economic cost and that will not provide our 2050 requirements), are finite either. Some of them probably more finite than fossil fuels.

    Alternatives are needed that will provide the generation we will require at a cost that will not bankrupt the country and at a price to the end user that will not sink our economy. This 2050 offhore wind/hydrogen plan will do neither.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    so you don’t know anything about these penalties, or indeed if there are any direct penalties at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The materials to make wind turbines and solar panels are finite, require extensive mining to extract rare earth minerals, produce large volumes of waste material (including radioactive waste), the scaled up processing with various combinations of heat and acids, bulk of that processing is done in China burning fossil fuels. NIMBYs don't want mining or processing in their locality, they are happy to consume products marketed to them as saving the planet. Recycling modern composite materials require energy from burning of fossil fuels and various chemicals to break down the materials, in some cases such as plastic it is just burned, leaving it to nature to recycle the material. If fossil fuels are finite so it recycling.

    Being not very dense compared to nuclear or fossil fuels, the number of suitable sites for wind turbines and solar panels in finite. All the best on shore sites for wind generated power have already been allocated and tends to be far from the main population centers where most electricity is needed, thus more copper wire is needed, that stuff is scarce as well and due to declining ore quality the volume of material that needs to be processed is increasing. The generating capacity factor of solar in Ireland in rated at 10%, turns out daylight on an annual basis is finite. Don't forget the generation costs associated with the duck curve. Onshore wind is rated around 33%, though it's usually around 25% and dipped to 21% back in 2021 (wind drought), turns out that when we get a high pressure over western Europe especially in Winter, the dunkelflaute means very little wind anywhere when there is maximum electricity demand. Batteries store power, they are not generators, are not very scalable, are expensive and can only be used to manage some of the issues created by non-synchronous generation like sudden dips in output while fossil fuel generators spin up.

    Wind and solar are finite and completely dependent on fossil fuels.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Irish Times June 2 2024.

    Green Party leader and Minister for the Environment Eamon Ryan said his officials were projecting that the 29 per cent fall in emissions under the climate action plan - which is short of the 51 per cent EU target - would, under EU rules, require the State to pay up at least €5 billion in what are in effect fines.

    ……. and that is only for 2030.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    We must also look at the other end of the extension lead, UK government now has Ed Miliband performing the role Eamon Ryan does here. A recent letter indicates they are following the same playbook to setup a fall guy, the UK has its Oxbridge elite floating around in the net zero ideological bubble.

    First, it is rather unfortunate that the file name for the letter on the Government website is “SOS Chris Stark Letter Clean Power 2030.” It smacks of a certain amount of desperation. But it is the substance of the letter that is more worrying. They have written to Fintan Slye, director of the National Grid ESO (soon to become NESO) for “practical advice” on achieving a clean power grid by 2030. In other words, neither Ed Miliband nor Stark have the faintest clue how to deliver a net zero carbon grid by 2030. source


    The former New Zealand prime minister, Jacintha Arderns government pursuit of net zero has left New Zealand facing blackouts sooner than later. Is there another island country whose government has limited their nations access to gas?

    This year, we failed to refill the reservoirs, and levels are now unusually low. We are muddling along for the moment, but this is a difficult position from which to recover and there are likely to be blackouts at some point in the future.

    The ability of our fossil fuel power stations to step into the gap has been severely restricted. We used to get 20 per cent of our electricity from gas-fired power stations, but six years ago, as part of their decarbonisation policy, the previous government banned further gas exploration, and we are now desperately short of gas. The new government is encouraging new exploration but we won’t see the results for several years. source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    What old riddlery is this? Are they fines or are they not fines? Or are you just relying on what a newspaper says? Give us a bit more detail please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Your green hero Eamon appears to have no doubt they are fines.

    If you believe otherwise take it up with him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The rest of that article by Bryan Leyland from the link you provided are well worth a read by anybody genuinely interested on the follies of generation based on nothing but wind and solar, and not just for New Zealand



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Another green policy costing insane amounts of money for nothing

    All so Eamonn can park his push bike



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    he’s got nothing to do with me. Everything you write here is based on stuff written in old newspapers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So you believe the Irish Times just fabricated that article of June 2nd. and Eamon hasn`t looked for a retraction and apology since.

    Seems strange to me, but I`m sure you have a coherent explanation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    All I really know is that your only source for the stuff you report here is old newspapers you once read.

    I don’t know expect you to do anything about it or even accept it. I just wouldn’t want anyone falling into this thread to take the heady mid of vitriol and techno-fantasy at all seriously!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Hasn’t the poster and others consistently came up with figures to back up their statements

    Meanwhile we are all still waiting on how much will the 37GW offshore wind plan Eamonn is pushing will cost, if it’s anything like his bike shed (few posts up) then it’s only fair citizens of this country ask how much this daft plan will cost us, I am not even commenting on the hydrogen “techno dreams” as there is literally nothing to comment on as its firmly in realm of vapourware (hahaha pun 😇)

    Especially as our electricity bills continue to rise and CO2 emissions remain many multiples of other European countries of similar size that went nuclear



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,738 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    More questions heading to the Minister for Transport over the direction TII are taking in regards planned and funded road improvement works

    https://www.offalyindependent.ie/2024/09/01/planned-offaly-national-road-work-on-hold-nolan/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    In the latest episode of follow the money, I mean "ground breaking research", Trinity welcomes Professor Karen Wiltshire (62) as first CRH Chair of Climate Science. That's worth about ~€150-170K salary. The activists in history and political science are not impressed by who her sponsor is. Her appointment ticks all the right boxes, those at the top of the Irish establishment know which side their bread is buttered.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/teure-und-ineffiziente-klimaschutzmassnahme-102.html

    Who would have guessed that practically giving away access to public transportation for near or near free doesn't reduce pollution to any great extend and just incentivises usage to the detriment of punctuality and availability for those who need it.

    Germany had a €9 monthly ticket and now has a €49 ticket.

    "Expensive and inefficient climate protection measure”

    According to a study, the 9-euro ticket for local public transport was an expensive and inefficient climate protection measure."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I believe I have provided verifiable sources and data here for anything I have posted.

    Not only have your posts consisted of nothing more than vague ramblings, you have now wandered off to join the tin hat brigade believing the Irish Times, (and other mainstream media), fabricated a story on Ireland having to pay fines for emissions exceeding the E.U. 2030 targets and credited it to Eamon Ryan, who for some unexplain reason hasn`t denied it or looked for a retraction.



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