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Vice President Kamala Harris vs Donald Trump 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,151 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The photo is the real deal. Nobody said anything about the books orientation, which has nothing to do with the topic being discussed here, that being the theming of god and the presidency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Obviously you're entitled to present the American perspective on matters and you're inevitably going to defend anything America does in the Middle East.

    The defence of American policy seems to be well Trump would be worse. I'm hearing that since last October.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,151 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    you're inevitably going to defend anything America does in the Middle East.

    You don’t know me half as well as you think you do 🥸

    What you’re right about though is that Trump would be far worse for everyone involved. That includes Europe especially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Trump would be worse. This isn't speculation, its been proven - by him - time and time again. 'Trump would be worse' seems like a perfectly valid argument for not electing him. Not just worse over the middle east, but in respect of everything including internal US politics through to international diplomacy. Even in the most general terms of simple likeability and common decency, he is an odious individual, self-serving, petulant and basically stupid.

    I have no idea how Kamala Harris would perform, but I am 100% certain that she would make a better effort than Trump.

    In a two horse race, why support the one that is going to be worse?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    The point of mentioning the upside down bible, which I did, was to identify the event (to distinguish it from his other interactions with bibles, sure he was on a grift selling them at one point last year). The orientation of the book was never the point!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Yes, but that has nothing to do with the post you were talking about though



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 PixelCrafter


    You have to remember though that the US in 2024 and Ireland in 2024 are two very different places in terms of attitudes towards religion and how people interact with religion.

    A lot of Americans are highly religious, heavily involved in faith communities and very outwardly religious. To a lot of Europeans that seems like something from a very long time ago, but we make the mistake of projecting our contemporary values onto a foreign country. The US is not Ireland, the UK, France or anywhere else. It's very much its own thing culturally.

    Ireland is a lot more line with the coastal US urban attitudes in many ways, particularly in the North East and very much in line with Western Europe these days, which wasn't always the case. Ireland's relationship with the church is also one that tends to have been one of being quite oppressed by a top-down hierarchical organisation and then quite dramatically throwing it off. The same is true in a lot of countries in Europe at various times and even the big European protestant churches are mostly establishment focused and very hierarchical. American religious groups are often subcultures with a siege mentality and can be quite bottom-up, community identity driven and often see the broader society and the state as an external threat. They wear their religiosity as a badge of identity.

    Most of Europe is post-religious at this point and tends to see highly religious societies as backwards or a relic of a bygone era. That's the reality of it.

    If Harris only appeals to the urban populations, she will win the popular vote and lose the election. They don't live in a one-person-one-vote democracy for this kind of federal election. It's also not proportional. It's an archaic and complicated electoral college system conceived in the 1780s, designed to keep an early federal state system together, long before urbanisation and that's heavily weighted towards votes per state and that tilts it into very much a geographical representative system rather than a population based one, which massively overweights rural and small town voters.

    There are a lot of flaws in the system, but that's what she has to work with. They're not likely to change anytime soon.

    Part of her messaging has to audiences we just aren't all that familiar with. There's no point in her winning more votes in places she's already going to win. It's all about the marginal areas and swing states.

    It's also a continental scale federal system which covers a lot of different regional takes on things, enormous urban-rural divides and so on.

    The Irish window on the US tends to be through the very socially progressive cities in the northeast and through the West Coast and media / tech bubbles. That's why we end up with a distorted view and being shocked when we encounter genuine rednecks. We know it well, better than a lot of Europeans do, but it's still a view from afar and from a particular perspective.

    Post edited by PixelCrafter on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,065 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It was a very clever move of Harris to select Tim Walz as her VP pick - very much a guy from the 'heartland' and someone Middle America can identify with. He's a latecomer to politics and spent most of his life as a schoolteacher and in the National Guard. His upbringing and background couldn't be further than that of Harris. Picking an urban elite professional politician type would have been a risky move.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 PixelCrafter


    Yeah, he has broad appeal in some of those areas, at least potentially anyway.

    I think on the GOP side of it they've leaned so far into extreme religious-conservative points of view though that they are more at risk of alienating middle ground voters.

    I'd separate out that Trump himself carries a large personal vote around a cult of personality that's more about some imagined idea of sticking it up to the establishment, even though he's a billionaire establishment figure, he's seen as a rebel by some. However, he's bringing a long a lot of crazy in the entourage and increasingly leaning more and more into that. That's going to potentially alienate people more so than Harris doing bit of a shout out to the faith communities.

    I could see quite a bit of old 'blue collar' middle America being quite turned off by it. He really 'borrowed' votes that would typically have leaned towards pro-labour democratic candidates in some places.

    Harris has to ride the mainstream wave to win. Trump's quite capable of doing all the wrong things and she needs to capitalise on that.

    Also, unlike Biden, I don't think she's as worried about taking the gloves off. Biden was far too polite and Hillary Clinton is basically a technocrat. She played by the rules while Trump was playing VERY dirty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 548 ✭✭✭RickBlaine


    That clip of him at the beginning, what a whiny little child! And the way he emphasizes Hussein when he says Barack Hussein Obama is nothing but a despicable appeal to his racist supporters.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    How is it proven if he wasn't in charge the past 11 months?

    History books will not write that things "could have been worse" for the people of Gaza if Trump was in office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,548 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    But Trump has been worse for the people of Gaza, for example moving the embassy to Jerusalem further worsening the tensions there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You keep posting about how bad America is towards the people of Gaza and yet you're support is towards the one candidate who has shown that he will gladly stand by and cheer on Netanyahu



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Confirmed: DJT has lost his mojo.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,125 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Rubbish as usual. I've never expressed one ounce of support for Trump. And most of what Israel has been doing thr last 11 months has been illegal and Biden has done nothing.

    I would expect a more cleverer approach to the American attitude on the Middle East from Irish people , not the American perspective - "things would be worse under Trump".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You tend to jump into the thread and post a contrary position. Eg you're not getting hung up on Trump mentioning God.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    But rather un-curiously you spend almost every keystroke criticizing Kamala/Democrats(especially when the criticisms fit more snugly to Trump). Perhaps you think people don't notice this trend? That you're the only genius who's ever used this strategy in an attempt come across as somehow neutral and more believable.

    But it's a well worn path at this stage. As transparent as it is boring and unoriginal. You can do better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Another poster that can't deal with Democrat criticism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,151 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    and Biden has done nothing.

    False. Nothing more to be said. If you cared to stand by such a scurrilous claim you'd make it in either Biden or Hamas thread, where it would be ripped apart. He's not running in this election thread.

    Rubbish as usual from you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,622 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If you only come in to criticise Democrats, implicitly that comes across as supporting Trump.

    You're criticising Harris on points on which there is abundant evidence that Trump is much worse.
    If as you claim you are concerned about these points, why would you only criticise Harris?
    Why wouldn't you criticise both, or sometimes one and not the other.
    Harris is just ahead in the polls, but Trump is (inexplicably) still in the race and could still win it.

    And this isn't whataboutery, it's a thread to discuss a two horse race between Harris and Trump, and it is about establishing standards for comparison.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,548 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Why don't you counter what I said? Or have you no argument to give?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Wrong. I'm a single issue guy. You could have even taken a brief glance at my posting history to find out what that is and why I can't abide Trump. I'm kinda offended that you didn't tbh. Maybe you're just a kinda low energy guy like your preferred Presidential candidate?

    I don't give a fiddlers about Democrats or Republicans. I care about Trump throwing Ukraine to the wolves(and by extension European and World security). I'd be more than happy to have a Republican President of the US if it was someone like Romney.

    Maybe try harder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,553 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    You started the personal insult. I'll leave it there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Incorrect again.

    Another poster that can't deal with Democrat criticism.

    Insulting me by implying I'm some kind of snowflake. Almost like you can't keep up with your own statements. How very Trumpesque. Sure off ye go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,734 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Any news on when Harris is going to do an actual interview with someone?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Hopefully as soon as they guarantee all the questions won't be about Trump….



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