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New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    It meshes well with BusConnects plans, you can dig into the details via the planning docs, or by watching the council presentation:



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You're correct. When I read it first, I somehow misread it as another motion. D'oh!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,331 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It is being done because BusConnects will require it with a large increase in buses using the Quays when the D Spine (and associated radials) are diverted from Dame Street.

    Better to let these changes get bedded in before also diverting the buses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The statistics will show that car ownership among the disabled is far lower than among the abled population.

    It is a complete red herring to bring this up, after all, how many blind people drive a car?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I’m not aware of any Dublin Bus or Go Ahead buses that are not wheelchair accessible. I rarely see people occupying the wheelchair space and block a wheelchair from entering the bus.

    I’ve seen a driver ask the buggy to be folded or people to move out of the way. All works well. Wheelchair has priority over that space and buggies after that.

    An efficient wheelchair accessible bus service will serve everyone in the city well. Cars with single driver well abled people blocking 70 on a bus is pure selfish on our narrow busy Dublin streets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    How many blind people drive a car?

    Did you really just say that? Wow.

    You should know though, that anyone who is registered as visually impaired are entitled to disability parking permits, so they can be driven by other people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭lotas


    The disabled person might not own the car, but their partners/sons/daughters/helpers/etc do… My mother had a blue badge before she died, and didn't own either the car I drive or the car my father drove… but the bad was swapped as needed. Neither of those would be listed as belonging to a disabled person…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    The irony with that comment is, that with the many disabled people who do rely on public transport you would think their views / the views of the DPOs that represent them, would have been actively pursued. But apparently that was not the case. All that was done was a box ticking exercise.

    I don't think anyone actually believes the suggestion that the pedestrianisation of Henry Street or Grafton Street be reversed would be taken seriously. So that is a red herring. But the views of the DPOs and those they represent should be fully examined and given the consideration they deserve in any current or future planning for limiting car access to, or pedestrianisation of the city centre. It's called inclusivity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    Did these organizations participate in the extensive public consultation? if not, they aren't representing their supposed stakeholders very well. 3500 people bothered to participate and 80% of those participants were overwhelmingly in favor of these much-needed measures to make the city more accessible, bus services more reliable and the city overall more friendly to all people, not just car drivers as it is today. Shelving the plans to cater to a few dozen carers/wheelchair users who can't/won't get on a low-floor, wheelchair-accessible bus is absolutely nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,406 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The Grafton St/Henry St claim has all the hallmarks of a 'let's up the stakes' negotiation tactic - ask for something ridiculously off the charts, to make your real asks look reasonable, when in fact, they're not.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    If it's a red herring, you can blame Robert Sinnott of Voice of Vision Impairment, because he's the one who seriously brought it up on Newstalk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,860 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Doubt it's gonna happen now. Disabled groups seem to hate car restrictions.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-transport-plan-disability-dpo-consultation-6374409-May2024/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭howiya


    The day after the Dublin Bus CEO telling the Oireachtas there are too many cars in Dublin one of his drivers is on the radio saying she drove her car along bus route to RTE. Host didn't think to ask why not get the bus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    The driver may be commuting from somewehere without a bus service, or an area which doesn't offer a service which would suit a shift worker.

    By and large, the bus service is unreliable. Making someone leave their car at home in the hope the bus service might improve is approaching the problem the wrong way round. Make the bus service reliable and then people will consider abandoning the car.

    Billy Hann also claims that passengers "rarely, if ever" experience anti-social behaviour. He obviously doesn't use the bus, or doesn't consult with his own drivers in problem areas. Bizarrely, he doesn't support the idea of a transport police.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭howiya


    This is why I think the host should have at least asked the question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You cannot make the bus service reliable without forcing people to leave their cars at home.

    The way to make the bus service reliable is through introducing bus gates, banning cars from certain streets, wider enforcements of bus lanes etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That "Voice of Vision Impairment" group doesn't seem to be representative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    I'm all for that, but people can't be asked NOW to do so. Implement the necessary changes first, THEN motorists will get the message. I mean, bus lane enforcement at the moment is almost non-existent, so why would motorists bother changing their behaviour now? Enforcement has to be implemented in a meaningful manner, then commuters will have a viable option. At the moment, for many, that doesn't exist.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm sure this is a proactive move by DCC to get that seeming lunatic from VVI to go away. It is noticeable that the only source of public complaint I have seen in any of these articles is from the group who wants disabled drivers to be able to drive up Grafton St.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No, they can't be asked. They need to be forced.

    Also, the bus service is by and large reliable, but it clearly still has flaws. Many of which they are trying to fix with these moves as it is overwhelmingly congestion from cars that causes the unreliability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 192 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    The cars are the problem in the city centre area. Taxis can be a problem but perhaps they should be allowed to use the bus lanes outside of the city core.

    I always remember the early days of the covid lockdown it was possible to drive the 16 from Ballinteer to the Airport in less than an hour during the day while driv8ng between 30 and 40 km/h. If the congestion was removed you could increase the frequency or reduce the amount of buses on a route, therefore allowing expansion of others.

    Even now the 24hr bus lanes on Swords Road still have cars in them, same on Finglas Road, especially on Sundays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭halfpastneverr


    25-30 mins March/April 2020 from Browns Barn to Ormond Quay Mon-Fri on the 69. Takes 25+ mins alone to get from there through Clondalkin and out onto the Naas Road these days. One of my only positive memories of the dark days of the pandemic!

    If buses were given any advantage vs car traffic, we would have a very decent bus system in this city. Hopefully, DCC manage to defeat the car park lobby (I mean 'disability advocates') and get the bus gates & camera enforcement of lanes and junctions in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭tubbs26


    Is there a map showing where will be blocked off to cars exactly? I can't see one anywhere.

    I noticed a comment in the independent that cars won't be able to turn left on westland row to pearse street.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    You can find the confirmed details in my post on the first page of this thread. I think there might be maps in the Transport Plan actually



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Yeah there are a few Public Realm maps in section 9:

    https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/draft-dublin-city-centre-transport-plan/supporting_documents/Draft%20Dublin%20City%20Centre%20Transport%20Plan%202023.pdf

    But we don't know specific traffic routing plans yet, only where the cars can't be.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭Augme


    It will be very disappointing if this goes through. Yet again support for the well off and to the detriment of those less well off. No surprises to see FG behind this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    Emer bloody Higgins. Why am I not surprised?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Really shows the importance of having Greens in government. There would be zero political will for any of these changes without them. I really hope people see this whenever the election is called.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Hopefully DCC tell them all to piss off.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.emerhiggins.ie/

    Her email is available on her website above. If you are as disgusted as I am about this, please let her know.

    My email to her:

    Ms Higgins,


    I want to share my absolute disgust regarding your objection to the immediate implementation of the Dublin City Traffic Plan. This objection demonstrates serious contempt for the people of Dublin and Ireland. It is completely out of touch with the vast vast majority of Dubliner's needs and wants. 


    Are you a user of Public Transport in this city, as it seems obvious to me you are not?.. No one who needs, or prefers, to access the city centre via active travel and public transport, could possibly stand over an objection to removing private vehicle through-traffic through the beating heart of Ireland's capital city. 


    As a Fine Gael voter on many occasions, I am once again deeply disheartened and disappointed at how out of touch your party has become from the people of Dublin and Ireland. 


    There is an article today in The Irish Times acknowledging the 20th anniversary of the Luas system. I suggest you read this article and consider the negative views and expectations the business community had regarding the Luas system. There was a fear the Luas would ruin businesses in the city centre by impeding private vehicle access. I suggest you try to imagine Dublin City today in the absence of the Luas network, and consider the impact it would have had on businesses, if it hadn't been built. 


    I implore you to reconsider this objection. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    I'm going to write to thank her for her intervention. I might even consider voting fine gael if she sticks to her word.

    The Green vote was decimated in the recent local elections. This was partly due to their anti-car policy and how out of touch they are from the people of Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,331 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    And what about the far greater numbers of bus users into and out of the city centre?

    This is prioritising them, particularly as an additional 25 buses an hour in each direction are going to be re-routed onto the Quays away from College Green once the Plaza works start.

    Some reality checks need to be had here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭howiya


    To me this is the latest example of politicians being unable to communicate effectively and sell the benefits of such a plan.

    "Let's push it until after the general election because we are unable to explain our policies...."



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What word? she has no power to actually do anything here.

    Eventually motorists will realise they are the minority of those being transported into the city and that these new traffic plans predate the Greens and will easily survive post the Greens. They'll make a lot of noise before they come to that realisation though.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    At least Ryan has now come out in support of the plan.

    Though the reporting remains dreadful. You'd think from this that they are removing all the bridges or something as opposed to putting in a couple of bus gates.

    "The Minister for Transport has said he believes the transport plan that would stop cars transiting through Dublin city centre should be implemented straight away and he said that if it is not, he believes Dubliners will be deeply upset."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭The Mathematician


    Yes, I think it needs to be explained that 'motorists' want something that is impossible. There is simply not enough road space for everyone that wants to drive into town. No matter how much road space is allocated to cars, it will fill up and the average speed for cars will remain the same.

    So the only question is whether we want everyone to get stuck in traffic or do we want to at least let those on buses get into town quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭angel eyes 2012


    The article from Rte states that "Ms Higgins is to ask Dublin City Council to postpone the plan until at least 2025."

    Apparently she is going to meet with the Council tomorrow, that is what I'm referring to. Her attempts might fall on deaf ears but at least she is speaking up for some of us drivers. That is how democracy works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,331 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    What about the views of the vast majority of people crossing the canals who are using the bus service though?

    Why should those people continue to have their journey unnecessarily lengthened?

    This is all about prioritising the bus service and therefore making it more attractive to use.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The democratically elected council have already approved the plan. So no it isn't.

    I'm happy for her to meet whoever she wants, but I hope they tell her where to go.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    She isn't speaking out on behalf of drivers. She is speaking out on behalf of a business group which is dominated by car park owners. By speaking out in this manner, she is failing then people who commute into Dublin daily and her actions should not be applauded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,394 ✭✭✭markpb


    I’m a driver too! I drive seven days a week and these days I take public transport about 4 times a year and yet she doesn’t speak for me. I’m happy to reallocate as much city centre road space away from private vehicles as DCC can find a way to do.

    I believe in allocating road space in the most efficient way possible and sometimes that means it’s not for me and my car.

    I believe in allocating road space in the least polluting way possible and sometimes that’s not me and my car.

    I believe that the vast numbers of people walking, cycling and taking public transport in the city centre deserve more road space and safety than they are given today.

    Perhaps most importantly, I don’t believe that my driving license or steering wheel are extension of myself or define who I vote for or what I need from my elected politicians. And this is coming from someone who imported a fairly unique car from the UK and paid a fortune for it and a fortune in VRT for it because I actually really do like my car and there were almost none for sale in Ireland. But it’s it my car, it’s not me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭Disco24


    FG repeating their pre euro election populism. Give a stay of execution to car drivers, couple of digs at the greens and keep people happy before general election. Wouldn't surprise me if Harris gets involved.

    Media could do better job of increasing awareness of benefits to public transport in congestion hours and days that will be saved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,172 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I'd say this is previously unknown Emer Higgin's way into the public eye, and lining herself up for a promotion in the next GE… maybe to Transport minister..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭StreetLight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    You're not aware of her incredible achievements in renaming Passport Express? You've really been missing out.

    As her constituent I will also be writing to her to tell her to cop on and stop interfering with this long awaited and much needed plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You speak for a lot of people.

    I use my PHEV most days, but for going into the city centre from Blanch, I use public transport. That needs to improve and the infrastructure projects (Bus Connects, Dart +, Metrolink) are needed, but also these measures to eliminate cars from the city centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,416 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    A final ‘fcuk you’ from Windowbox Ryan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,172 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Until now I didn't know she existed, a quick search and it seems she's made quite a few gaffes in her time, so will fit in just fine with FFG.

    Maybe if she is promoted to Transport minister then the passenger cap at the Airport could get lifted…



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,379 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Cars are not being eliminated from the city centre. Private cars are not being permitted along a short stretch of the quays and instead will be diverted around that section. All along DCC have told everyone that traffic will not be blocked from accessing the city.



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