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General gaming discussion

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Comments

  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ah I don't know, I think 1, 2 and 3 were definitely great games that pushed boundaries at the time. 4 and 5 it went a bit downhill and they were dining out on the earlier successes at that stage.

    But they have all aged. I've tried to re-play 1 and 2 a few times and it's a struggle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Yeah I can't even disagree that it feels a bit redundant, especially a year after the collection came out which means people can still easily play the original. In some parts too it looks like they're just making changes for the sake of it, such as now having Snake's health and stamina bar in the bottom centre of the screen…. because…. why….? Maybe it's because he's Big Boss, and bosses usually have their health bar at the bottom of the screen…. Who knows?

    I'm guessing though that in many respects, it'll end up like the Demons Souls remake. People who played the original might not appreciate some of the little changes and the effect it has from the original intention and design. But, if it means people who never played the original or any of the HD re-releases decide to pick it up and they enjoy it for what it is, well that's just a new MGS3 fan, and I'm all for that. The world will be a better place.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Nah. MGS1 is still a stone cold classics and perfectly playable if you are willing to engage with a control system that differs from modern controls. MGS3 is also another all time classic. Both of those games are also pretty light when it comes to the heavy handed storytelling, they're far better paced and let you have fun with the systems.

    MGS2 I think doesn't hold up as well and there's definitely issues with pacing and the amount of cutscenes. And the less said about MGS4, that game is a bit of a stinker. And for all the flak MGSV gets it really plays brilliantly, although the less bloated Ground Zeroes probably highlights it a lot better.

    Even the older games and spin offs are great. Revengeance is one of the all time great character action games, Metal Gear 1 and 2 are 2 of the best msx games and still really playable and I'll make a case for the Gameboy colour metal gears solid ghost babel being one of the best in the series.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    A lot of the dialogue in the MGS games are definitely over-written and unnecessarily long. Especially MGS2 where half the conversations between characters happen over Codec because they're so long they couldn't animate the entire cutscenes. But at the same time, taking MGS2 as the same example it is insanely prescient of how the digital age has developed, with control of information, and the weaponisation and propagation of misinformation. There are ideas in that 2001 game that, as overly-long and cumbersome as the explanations of them may have been, are incredibly relevant to today.

    That said, it's a big part of why MGS3 is my favourite, because the story is probably the least complex of all the MGS games, but it's also a lot more focused in how it's presented.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I mean, the story vs gameplay discussions have always been there with MGS. I remember in particular the discourse around MGS2 and MGS4 at the time. They have long been considered games that are as indulgent (for better and worse) as they are popular. I’d say Peace Walker and MGSV were always noted for having a tight focus on gameplay compared to the sprawling stories of some of the others (MGSV has a sprawling story too, just more diluted in such a massive game).

    That said, MGS3 has long been considered the one that course corrected from MGS2’s excesses (which were revisited with a vengeance in 4) and had a lot more focus on clever, tight gameplay and in-depth mechanics. It’s also the one where Kojima’s cinematic dreams most benefited the storytelling, such as the iconic final boss fight. Also, no video game has ever had a better ladder 😅



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  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The problem with 5 wasn't how it plays, it's the story. Or lack of one.

    I still don't understand why there was base building. Then repeat the same things over and over and over and over and over again.

    With the hardware available now there is the potential there for a serious espionage / stealth game, maybe we'll get a MGS6 some day, would be a pity if it ended with 5.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    MGS4 definitely suffered from "dot all the i's and cross all the t's", because Kojima was trying to wrap up the entire saga and close off everything, and so everything had to be explained to the nth degree (while also explaining everything new in MGS4 such as the war economy etc) because Kojima (at the time) didn't want to do any more MGS games. Not saying he still didn't over-indulge a lot while doing so, but that's a big part of why the story in MGS4 suffered. Hell the final cutscenes go on for something like 70 minutes. I think that's part of why button prompts were integrated during cutscenes where if you press X at certain points, you see flashbacks of images from previous games etc, because otherwise people's controllers would have been constantly turning off due to no inputs.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Without going into spoilers, there’s a narrative development near the end of MGSV that IMO justifies the whole base / army building aspect of the game - in particular, the way it suddenly marries gameplay and storytelling in a way I’ve rarely seen in a game, to the point where it’s even willing to push back against the player.

    Sadly, the story completely falls apart after that point and doesn’t really end properly, though that seems to be down to the game’s troubled production.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I think MGS2 gets too much credit for it story. It has some interesting themes and ideas, many of which unfortunately turned out true for society. It is however wrapped up in some of the corniest and hamfisted dialogue and writing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Oh definitely. 90% of anything involving either Rose or Emma is pretty abysmal.

    "Jack, did you remember what day it is?" Rose, I just fought a huge dude on rollerskates drinking wine with a straw while planting bombs all around me. Maybe shut the f*ck up.



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  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I didn't get anywhere near the end of 5 before getting bored and stopping playing.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The game play in 2 was fun though and the story, while not amazing, was at least bearable.

    I think. Struggling to remember now and starting to doubt myself. I think I replayed 2 loads of times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It is unfortunate the way MGS5 is laid out in that after the end of Act 1, you have to replay a lot of previous missions but with a harder difficulty, and do a lot more of the (often repetitive) side missions in order to unlock new missions which then develop the story. And even then a lot of those missions involve breaking into the same base as previous missions but maybe just have to get into a different room or you have to perform a different action while there etc. So I can see why someone would get bored and maybe quit. There does feel like quite a bit of padding in order to ensure you're collecting enough resources etc to continue building your base, which is ultimately a key part of the gameplay loop.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I can't remember how far I got, but I was really disappointed in that game. Also annoyed at the stupid tapes you listened to in the helicopter, I've always hated that method of story telling.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    MGS2 is kind of not fun to play until subsequent playthroughs when you learn the ropes and can start having fun. It's a weird game like that. It is remarkable how good the enemy AI is in that game and how many options you can to play around with that AI and how to dispatch them.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I think I tried to re-play 2 a few years ago but didn't get very far.

    But I got further than I got trying to replay 1. Man those controls are whacky, I don't know how we coped with them back in the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I think we coped with them because all control schemes were fairly wonky back then, so you had to learn and then remember all different control schemes. Whereas now a lot of control schemes are fairly uniform.

    I've toyed with getting the Master Collection to replay 1-3 again, but I'm definitely trepidacious about having to replay MGS1 with those controls. MGS2 & 3 I think are a lot easy to adapt to.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    It wasn’t really until the 360 / PS3 era that games - mainly talking first / third action games - really locked into a nearly universal controller control scheme, or at least one that could be easily adapted for a particular game’s individual needs. Before that there were no real set rules so developers had much more leeway.

    I think it’s been mostly for the best, as the vast majority of games are easy to just settle into now for anyone with any experience. But it definitely makes older games harder to return to, and it’s not always easy to adapt some older control schemes for modern games - as the Tomb Raider rereleases show, a modern control scheme still requires tweaks and workarounds to offer the same functionality as the older version. Other older games I’ve gone back to and my brain just takes ages to rewire itself to everything.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I think in a way we have lost a lot having control schemes so homogenized. In ways it's good for accessibility but it can limit creativity. I mean look at souls games now and how down the likes of giant bomb were on its control scheme.

    I do feel the metal gear games try to do a bit too much with their controls from the second game on. The pressure sensitive buttons on the dualshock 2 were new and once you got a hmag of them it was a nice way to ease off and not fire a shot in first person. When twin snakes came to GameCube and you had to press a second button it felt very intuitive. I actually feel the controls are worse for MGS2 and 3 in recent releases because theyve had to use more complex controls to compensate for the pressure sensitive controls of those games.

    MGS1 is pretty easy to get the hang of. It controls and feels great. You just have to get used to holding down Square to auto aim and releasing it fires a shot (to come out of it without firing you have to unequip, the MGS2 way ends up feeling better).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The pressure-sensitive controls for MGS2 also affect the Vamp boss fight, where (canonically) he can judge and anticipate your movements by the way your muscles are tensing up, so to shoot him you're supposed to be lighter on the controls so your muscles aren't as tense. Which is kind of a cool way to utilise the controls, but also, pretty annoying to use when knives are being thrown at your face and also not that adaptable to other versions of the game (re-releases or ports).



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I have the master collection, was a waste of money in the end as I couldn't ever get used to the MGS1 controls and camera angle.

    The camera angle is wild, you have times where you literally can't see where you are going. You can walk around a corner and be spotted because the camera angle is just totally wrong, you didn't see the enemy there.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    You're meant to be looking at the radar at all times. You can even see their vision cones.

    Actually someone was saying how the substance camera makes MGS3 too easy. I played the original game and you couldn't really see enemies in that so you had to use first person view as well as all the radar options to figure enemy positions out. The thing was the animals in the environment would be picked out as well so you had to use a variety of options just to work it out. I played the HD versions and didn't need these at all.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    But the radar didn't always help either. The only way to be sure was to peek-look every single corner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The radar is key, but there are a few areas where it's jammed or if you're going up/down stairs you can get caught out because their cone of vision isn't showing. Or of course you can be in Caution and trying to make a break for it and not realise an enemy is around the corner. But it's fairly reliable the majority of the time.

    But it's where I vehemently disagree when anyone tries to say the gameplay of MGS3 is just MGS2 but in a jungle. The cones of vision are gone, and the radars and sensors you have are limited in their application and how long you can use them. That's why the stealth gameplay in MGS3 is so good. You can be right at an enemy's ankles and not been seen with the right camo, and enemies have far better (and unknown) range in their vision so you can't always just run past them if they're far enough away because you don't know if they'll still see you or not. Makes the stealth far more exciting.

    Of course, you mostly just end up tranq'ing all enemies with a long-distance headshot anyway, but you at least have to put the work in to identify where they are first.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Star Wars Outlaws is getting some incredible reviews!

    Incredibly bad ones, that is….

    2/5 from eurogamer.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    A Ubisoft game is mediocre? I am SHOCKED! Shocked I tells you!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭brady12


    Just about enough in it that I will try tonight/tomorrow on ubisoft plus on xbox



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Seema the devs said they took influence for the open world from red Dead redemption 2 so makes sense that all the complaints about the open world are that it's boring and devoid of anything to do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,434 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    To be fair, it's getting more positive reviews as well. But it's Ubisoft so will have its price cut quick enough.

    Assuming people remember that it released. Like when reading comments about it, I was reminded that that Avatar game came out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    That's not really representative to be fair.

    Currently sitting on 76 on Metacritic for the PS5 version which is perfectly reasonable (81% positive reviews, 17% mixed reviews, 2% negative reviews) and reflects a generally good game. Xbox and PC versions both sitting at 77.

    The Eurogamer one is literally the only 'incredibly bad one' (at time of writing).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭brady12


    Any word on how performs on console? Only heard Pc talk



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Glitches and performance hitches on console but they are prerelease reports. Doesn't sound too egregious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭marcbrophy


    Thanks Dave, I'll let you know if I pick it up!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    For me, Jedi Survivor was bland because Star Wars is bland. I think this game will be less bland than it's source material, in which case it's job done. I think this looks fine. If it's not pushing any gameplay boundaries then it's because the Disney/Ubisoft management were on their backs. Also, they got this huge game to market on time. They did amazing things (massive) technically with the Avator game too (more bland source material). I'd say Star Wars fans will love this game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭CWMMC


    The graphics look horrible it's nearly as if we have gone backwards



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Digital foundry seems to be full of praise for the game.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,257 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It's an Ubisoft game, so just wait a week after it comes out and get the sentiment from actual players.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Even for those who like Ubisoft open world games more than I do (I have zero interest in them anymore), I can’t imagine ‘less bland’ are ever the words that spring to mind for their output 😅

    The entire company is built around making games that are defiantly formulaic and predictable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Looks like the speeder will be more fun to drive across alien worlds vs the new moon buggy in Starfield at least 🤣



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Emm…

    “Worst of a bad bunch, on the exploration front, is Star Wars Outlaws' horrible, wicked, downright cursed speeder. Star Wars games have always had trouble with speeders - a function of their original design itself really, as flimsy, overtly crashable and ludicrously fast - but this thing is something else. Not only is it a nightmare to drive, revealing the blunt edges of Outlaws' very limited physics by slamming into near-invisible bumps and micro-ledges and coming to comically blunt, immediate standstills, it also has the unfortunate effect of emptying out the landscape.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    That's just one opinion (and notably the ONLY negative review on Metacritic of 56 on PS5). I can easily pick out one from the dozens of positive reviews.

    That reviewer clearly hated it and that's their valid opinion. But they're evidently in the minority so I wouldn't be taking it as gospel.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Oh God, I'm getting flashbacks to the god awful speeder section from shadows of the empire. Awful game.

    I'd more likely come down on eurogamers side of reviews when it comes to opinions than the majority of the reviews that make up metacritic that seem to just give high scores to everything and get caught up in hype cycles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Each to their own but to dismiss 43 other positive reviews and 12 mixed reviews as not accurate and claim only one outlet knows what they're talking about is a bit of a mad statement.

    Of course they might speak to you and match your tastes, which would understandably be the most important thing to you, but to infer that its the common consensus is way off.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 52,119 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    No it really isn't. As I said the vast majority of videogame sites that get reviews on metacritic are ****. And they are, unless you put Eurogamer on the same category as journalistic exemplaries like Gamespew, Gamers Heroes, Hey Poor Player, Tierra gamer and SixthAxis. Most of those review sites are just bad.

    I actually find it a very normal thing to find publications and reviews whose opinions align with your own to make informed decisions

    The strange behaviour is to go a long with the metacritic hive mind. Bit of research into what makes up those averages reveals a lot and also reveals you shouldn't put too much stock in them.

    Counter point. Metrogame central who I would class as very good when it comes to reviews gave it an 80. I'll read them and compare it to Eurogamer rather than going with a metacritic consensus.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,881 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    While I have no doubt there are plenty of legitimately positive reviews out there - Metro GameCentral gave it an 8/10, and they tend to be pretty trustworthy - I would take one Eurogamer review (given their track record and commitment to well-written and considered games criticism) over 20 of the generic Metacritic-listed outlets that’ll invariably give every AAA blockbuster a glowing review. That’s not to say I’ll always agree with them or that they’re ‘right’, just that I generally appreciate listening to what their writers have to say as EG’s editorial policy tends to allow for more robust criticism. Ditto Rock Paper Shotgun.

    But then a lot of games critics I trust aren’t on the regular review beat anyway, so I hear from them via tweets and podcasts a lot of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    "Hive mind"? Give me a break 😂

    I actually find it a very normal thing to find publications and reviews whose opinions align with your own to make informed decisions

    This I completely agree with and don't doubt that it's what important to a gamer.

    But to claim that Eurogamer and Metrogame are the only legitimate sources out there is just silly and a bit crackpot. That's a decision you've made and power to you, but to claim it as fact….? Nah.

    Nothing strange at all about looking at Metacritic for a general vibe on a game. I've loved games that have been pilloried by the masses and hated games that have been lauded. Ultimately I don't care too much about average scores but it can be indicative of a general opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    I think that's a perfectly reasonable approach and I have a similar approach to some film reviewers that I vibe with some and don't with others - I'll know that if X likes a film, there's a better chance that I'll like it too.

    But I certainly wouldn't come out and say that reviewer Y's opinions objectively are not relevant and shít all over them just because I don't agree with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,508 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The numbers ultimately don't matter. It's about finding the reviewers who you trust to tell you why they've given it whatever score they have. While something like metacritic is okay for highlighting the general consensus, that's a general consensus from a pretty wide pool. As subjective as reviewers try to be (or should try to be), you also cannot discount personal preferences weighting their scores. Similarly, some reviewers (like Eurogamer) will often really try to stress-test the game and will weight some things like performance more highly than others.

    I think the more positive reviews also don't negate things like the Speeder issues highlighted by Eurogamer, because it may not have happened as much to those other reviewers, or they weight it as being less of an issue in their overall experience.

    So ultimately, yeah, the numbers don't matter. Always delve into why the reviewers you trust have given it that number.



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