Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Why aren't areas like Beaumont and Walkinstown more popular.

12357

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Where should people with skilled technical jobs, the type they got by apprenticeship (not the sexy IT jobs) the mid-range administration jobs, or the myriad of other jobs that society needs but will never pay over 50k, where should they live?

    Just wondering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Outside a walled and fenced M50, in a Hunger Games type scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Technical jobs tends to mean college educated engineering. What you are referring to is trade jobs. Many people get married to people with one job being better paid. What you are specifically asking is how can a low income households afford high priced property.

    They can live in lower priced property in cheaper areas which are either less desirable or further away from areas of high employment of people with higher incomes.

    You were giving out about snobbery but the reality is that make property cheaper for those on lower incomes. You also think a trades person could do up a property and either make money or end up with a better property.

    What other way do you want it to work? Why should 2nd hand properties in a well established area not be sold for as much as possible?

    There is likely trouble ahead as AI is going to decimate the IT industry and in particular those entering the job market. A lot less need for junior staff is coming



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    The AI factor is a big unknown, but it's reach goes well beyond the IT industry. A lot of "spread-sheet" jobs can already be done by automation, and some companies have already started switching over. I've seen it myself in the insurance industry where it has been used to adjudicate claims. It was just a prototype, but give it a few years.

    Even software developers (or as some insist on calling them, "coders") can be replaced in some capacity. Ironically, the type of jobs that AI can't take are the physical jobs that are traditionally seen as lower class.

    The IT industry has been a golden goose for over a decade now. It's allowed remarkably ordinary people (or, sadly, out rightly incompetent people) to earn salaries that they never would have been able to dream of in the past. I myself am a failed historian, but I'm able to earn 80k a year doing software work that, to be honest, I'm not very good at. I don't think it will last much longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I think you may be off on the importance of IT as it is well over a decade and more like 3 decades and helped fuel our economy. Ireland used to be the biggest producer of software in the world. The IT industry used to be about processing information to make work easier rather than replace people the change with AI will be very different. This will replace peoples' jobs and is easier to do it than before.

    The new term coming out is Prompt Engineer which will pay well for a while but will be obsolete relatively quickly as AI gets better. I'll get to retirement before it really affects my job. There area ton of clueless IT staff that were used to fill jobs because there was a lack of people with proper training/aptitude. IT is going to revert to where only the very skilled get the high wages with tons of roles being diminished. I have met plenty of developers and met a lot of "coders' too and there is a difference



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We need to build lots of apartments.

    The idea that the people at the bottom of the income ladder are entitled to a heavily subsidised three-bed semi with front and back gardens was one of the major planning mistakes of the 20th century.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Hmm. Maybe it's akin to how the quality for "builders" back in the Celtic Tiger days was abysmally low because the demand was so high.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    On a national, population-wide basis? No.

    When you're in the market for houses in Dublin? Yes, it is, unequivocally so.

    But I was more referring to the fact that in the second half of the 20th century we covered enormous swathes of the city in a type of housing that was ultimately unsustainable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Maybe the hunger games idea outside the M50 would sort it out especially after the mass unemployment AI is going to bring.

    Mean while those who have done an apprenticeship in electronic engineering, lift maintenance, and the like, will be fine unless AI develops human hands and AI can eliminate work that requires hands and an engineers brain.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Nothing to do with the topic as such.

    A person goes to work in an office, the lift is undergoing maintenance.. requires hands and technical skills.

    On the way home they go to Tesco the tills are being calibrated and maintained requiring hands and technical skills.

    They pick up their EV as a light wasn't working and an expert in vehicle electronics fixed it, again requires hands and skills.

    Later they went to visit their mother in a hospital all the monitoring equipment needed highly skilled technical skills to calibrate and maintain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭Former Former Former




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    That AI is not going to cause mass unemployment, that skilled technician job which require an apprenticeship and the use of hands are very important to societies.

    They are unlikely to pay over 60k but society cant exist without them.

    The people who work in those occupation's where are they suppose to live.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Not for this thread, but AI has been promising a lot over the last 18 months, and I've yet to see the revolution we were promised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You don't quite get it. The barrier to entry for such jobs is low. If demand is high causing the salary to go high lots more people can change over easily. Unlike with IT where there is a large barrier to enter, a degree + years of experience hence people can't just change over to it easily. A trade that takes 2 years to learn is a semi skilled job. Right now it is cheaper for me to hire somebody to do a job than do it myself but I can do plumbing, carpentry and electrical work. I even have a qualification in electronic design.

    Lots of jobs are already dumbed down and have a lot further to go. Car mechanics are going to reduce a lot as EVs come in as there are less moving parts, working behind a till no longer even requires basic math skills or cash handling. Repairing components on all machines is massively being reduced where they just pull out one unit and replaced it.

    I get you think working with your hands and trade jobs are salt of the earth type workers but they are easily replaced by others and are not going to shoot up in wages ever. I have friends that calibrate medical equipment and they aren't highly paid nor highly skilled jobs. The people that designed the diagnostic tools are paid well as are those that design the machines themselves. Unless machines break very regularly we aren't talking about a lot of employment either way. I worked in retail software and a till could easily never have any hardware problems for 5 years. When one broke we just replaced the entire till and brought the old one back and maybe repair it but often just throw it out because it was cheaper. We could also just send out a till and have the store manager install it as everything was colour coded



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    He is trying to reassure themself that their job is not going to be effected changes to the work force coming



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Is that directed at me?

    AI will have zero impact on my career.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    No it was a response to Former. AI is going to effect most employment even if is just processing your wages. What industry do you work in that you think will not be effected?

    18 months is no time at all and I am working on stuff that is a game changer. Can see an experienced IT team of 10 could easily be reduced to 5 and do a better job. I am old enough to remember people talk about computers and how they were a going to change the world, it took longer than 18 months and is still going. Looks like the 3rd technical revolution in my life time computers, telecommunications and now AI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Can AI help a woman give birth or nurse a cancer patient or teach children.

    I am not saying AI can't make those jobs easier but they can't replace the persone doing the job.

    I am heading towards retirement but in my job there is zero chance of being replaced by AI, again not saying AI won't improve and make the job more efficient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,138 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Then the people whose jobs are in higher demand will earn (relatively) more money and they’ll be the ones with their pick of houses.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Just because people can't come to terms with their working class upbringing doesn't make me a troll



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,015 ✭✭✭circadian


    I'm perfectly fine with my working class upbringing, being from the Bogside. Try again.

    Edit: You still haven't provided evidence of Beaumont being wall to wall corpo houses, as initially claimed either.

    Post edited by circadian on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Just wondering what engineering or electronic apprenticeship or even any apprenticeship in Ireland are a two year apprenticeship?

    Regarding IT is your point that in the IT space in the future, there is going to emerge a class of super maths and science brain elite who will be running everything and all lesser beings in the IT world will be eliminated?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    It certainly can teach children and already is. It will also radically change how treatments are decided and Japan is working very hard on robotic combined with AI to take care of the elderly and sick. So for what you are asking the answer is yes AI will be doing these things



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    https://tus.ie/courses/industrial-electrical-engineering-apprenticeship/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    https://waymo.com/waymo-one-san-francisco/#:~:text=From%20Union%20Square%20to%20Serramonte,One%20app%20and%20ride%20today. Its a fully autonomous taxi service so the first step to fully autonomous self-driving cars for everyone.

    The unemployed taxi drivers could and will become healthcare workers as there is a worldwide shortage.

    The reason there won't be mass unemployment is as simple as this capitalism depends on spending for it all to keep going, teenagers need to be persuaded they need a branded Giants water bottle or a certain pair of trainers, the couple getting together needs to believe a house for 550k in far flung bit of Lucan is want they need.

    Post edited by mariaalice on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The apprenticeship you lined is for an already qualified electrician so they have already done a 4 year apprenticeship and that course is an extra 2 years so 6 years in all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    You need to compare like with like.
    A married male public servant got a 33% uplift above the pay of a single man. There were in addition child dependant allowances. There was a tax free allowance for each child.
    The house would have been build with single glaze deal windows, no insulation, one single electric socket per room and one bathroom with no shower, and a single pendant light in each room.
    The construction would have been done with poorly paid labour on cheap land on the outer fringes of the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    A valid point. However, like for like means comparing what was average for the time with what is average today. Yes, houses back then were primitive, but that's all that there was. Today, things like double glazing, multiple bathrooms and other such things are standard.

    In the 70s, someone on the average wage (I think it was around 5k a year in the 70s) would have been able to afford an average house in Dublin. To afford the same house today, a family would need to have an income greater than the average industrial wage.

    To be clear, I'm not one of these people who say that the past was a glorious time, but it is demonstrable that housing has become less affordable than it once was.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Your forgetting one very important point mortgages were hard to get you had to have a permeant job building societies were very catuish. The other option was a county council loan for a very small mortgage which had repayments 4 times a year sounds odd now.

    An elderly man I knew was telling me in the 70s he was single and tried to buy a house and the manager of the building society told him if they gave a single man a mortgage he would be depriving a family of a home, the whole thing loosened up a lot from the late 70s/ 80s onwards.



Advertisement