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Vice President Kamala Harris vs Donald Trump 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Eh it’s being done every second post- it’s tiresome at this stage and it’s preventing real discussion - if it was all so easy to just to keep repeating that, why aren’t Republicans defecting from Trump? Why isn’t Harris much further ahead?

    Some posters seem to think by continually repeating this nearly every single post that they’re “debating” - they’re not, they’re just going around in circles with the same old arguements- why not explore why so many people still support Trump, given all that’s happened? Simple reason is they don’t have the insight or mental capacity to do that - it’s just so much easier to shout what they shout each and every post. Theyre no different than the extreme MAGA supporters themselves and I couldn’t hold a conversation with them either- nor would I wish to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Trumps vote is based primarily on white poor Christian grudge and the perception that this is the last opportunity they will ever have to lock their version of America in. That vote is absolutely rock solid and will not budge an inch - they are not voting for Trump, they are voting for some version of Project 2025.

    Harris has to draw in a very diverse voter base, a base which has been marginalized by concerted efforts at gerrymandering them out of the election over decades. She has to persuade the undecideds to vote for her. But there are two aspects to this - the undecideds don't declare until election day so they will remain a largely unknown quantity until then - but most are moderate and see what Trump represents. Then we have history to inform you us - Trump had it in the bag with a clear lead right up to the end last election - until he didn't. The undecideds did it then and they will do it again for exactly the same reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    Interesting how people can point to Harris' considerable experience as VP, and at the same time distance her from any controversial policies of the current government because she was only VP



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Just two days ago, 200 republicans that served previous Republican presidents signed a letter saying they were voting for Harris in the interest of democracy.

    I lost count at how many Republican speakers, including ex congressmen spoke at Democrat gatherings over the last few weeks.

    A well known Republican judge published a letter saying that even though he disagreed with Harris policies, he's voting for her to protect democracy.

    40 odd members of Trumps own staff while he was president came out and said they're not supporting him.

    His own VP, Pence is not supporting him. I don't think that's ever happened before.

    I believe people are still voting for Trump out of fear, out of ignorance as to what he actually achieved and out of ignorance over the plans for project 2025.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Shoog


    An objective analysis would say that Bidens Presidency has been overwhelmingly successful given the the shitstorm he was handed by Trump.

    The majority issue he faced was inflation - an issue which effected every country in the world at about the same time - and which has subsided everywhere in the world - telling you it had very little to do with Biden or his policies - it was COVID.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    A great post I have to say- except the last line where you’re “sure” this will happen - isn’t that a bit blind thinking? Yes Trumps support group is dwindling or at least finite - but there are challenges for Harris when it comes to certain voters too for lots of reasons - and that’s reflected in her not increasing her lead since last weeks convention - it’s anything but a certainty right now. I thought the debate in a few weeks time might help her greatly - I’m not as confident now as maybe these undecided won’t even look in-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,607 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Hold on a second. What you have written there is a million miles away from what you claimed previously.
    The slighted criticism? What you claimed was way more than that, and don't pretend otherwise, utterly disingenuous.

    So yes it is strange, as strange as this memory hole you are attempting here.

    We can't have a discussion around the realities of the election while you drop in comments about her being a joke or people popping champagne, without foundation, and when challenged provide exactly nothing to back them up with but come out with nonsense about "rose tinted minds". Absolute nonsense you haven't even remotely justified.

    Multiple posters queried your comments, read back over them

    Nobody said anything about Trump being a rapist, they queried directly the dodgy claims you made.
    Yet you come out with complete fabrications that "everytime I highlight that".

    Your claims about Harris are not reliable, your claims about what's happening on this thread even less so and have no credibility.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,711 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    But that wasn't an issue for Trump in 2016? HC should have won in a landslide based on Trump's argument that experience is important.

    That is the thing with almost every line of attack Trump and his supporters try. In nearly every case it is based on complete hypocrisy.

    Harris has experience in government, legislature, dealing with difficult situations etc. But being VP is akin to being a backbence TD. Yes, it gives you greater influence than a non-government TD but you don't have any impact.

    As Trump himself stated, the VP is not important. Is anyone really expecting that JD Vance is going to be running the US if Trump gets elected. Because if you believe that the VP has that power, then there is simply no way that anyone should be voting for the Trump/Vance ticket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,959 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Are you ignoring all the career Republicans that aren't backing him?

    The Republican party has more MAGA fruitloops than ever who will never turn against him, plenty of pre-MAGA Republicans have walked from the Trump party.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Indeed. Let’s see how or indeed if, Trump deals with that at the debate. This isn’t a typical election so my policies vs your policies sort of discussions are thin on the ground given Trumps eh, unique approach to discussion.
    He’ll obviously blame her for everything and some people will suck that up - her main challenge will be to look and sound credible and presidential - but let’s not also forget…”it’s the economy stupid” - you’d be mad to discount that in this election



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,711 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    And the US economy is doing great. The stock market is at all-time highs. Except of course for Trump's own stock which is tanking. Unemployment is low. Inflation is lower than most of the rest of the main economies.

    Trump can't use his traditional approach. He tried that with Biden in 2020 and lost the debates. He was awful in the recent debate but was saved by Biden having a car crash. His previous approach will not win him any new voters. And he needs new voters. So while he will no doubt win the meme wars, with some funny putdowns, that won't get him extra votes.

    So what is Trump going to do to turn around the current momentum? He had both the RNC and an attempted assassination and yet his overall support has actually gone backwards. Seems to me that currently, the plan is to hope that Harris falls apart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,923 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I dont get the inexperience thing. The only way you can be truly experienced to be POTUS, is by being POTUS before. I would argue that being VPOTUS doesn't count as the buck does not wholly stop with you, but then being POTUS you are not on your own either. Working with cabinet, with Congress, with the Senate, POTUS is more like a project manager than a dictator. Harris has worked with all of these, has won elections to be AG and to get into the Senate.

    In 2016, Trumps argument against not being experienced was he was a successful CEO. (How successful is a matter for another debate), but when he got in, it was obvious he didn't know how politics in Washington and on the global stage actually works. You dont cosy up to the leaders of the 2 biggest threats to world peace, while simultaneously alienating your allies, and get involved in internal politics in Israel.

    So when people say she is inexperienced, I don't really understand what they mean.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Internal reports from his campaign say he has all but given up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,923 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Your mention of Vance triggered me. As disasterous as Trump winning would be, if something were to happen to Trump, and considering his age that's not beyond the realm of possibility, the thought of JD Vance as President of the USA, should fill every clear thinking person with blind terror.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭Patser


    I see Trump is releasing another set of NFTs- in a fairly ludicrous video launch

    But I have to ask, who is buying them, genuinely.

    Is it MAGA devotees that'll but anything from Trump

    Is it just a way for Donors, not wanting to put a spotlight on themselves, to give money to his campaign. Say Elon or Putin wants to donate but obviously quietly, why lodge $10 million that has to be declared if you can quietly 'invest' in $10 million of NFTs - or does all this get declared either way.

    Is it genuine investors? Quick Google search shows that his 1st batch are actually up in value



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    ”Nobody said anything about Trump being a rapist”


    sorry but I can’t take a word you say seriously after that comment 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Trump is a rapist, I have the court papers to prove it. It's never going away as an issue, always sitting in the background.

    Maybe if more people paid closer attention to what this says about his moral character we would be in a better place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,647 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    VP position and importance is up to the POTUS. VP Cheney was probably more important than POTUS Bush. Obviously Trump didn't give Pence much limelight. Harris might do well to indicate that Walz will have major roles in the administration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,607 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You said "everytime"… your words, own them.

    The replies challenged your claims on its merits, claims you were unable to support in any way except with a massive goalpost shift and by making false claims about the thread content. Claims easily discredited from a 10 second scan of posts that replied to you.

    You were asking questions about why your comments about Harris aren't taken seriously, given sufficient consideration etc - in a nutshell, posts like that are why.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,809 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    If experience is a thing, then trump being objectively ranked bottom or in the bottom 2 of all presidents show that he is unfit for the role (they have been ranking presidents since 1982):

    American Presidents: Greatest and Worst – Siena College Research Institute

    All ranking files and Tables excel.xlsx (siena.edu)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,474 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sometimes the elephant in the room is so **** huge though.

    I mean, why can't we just move past the fact that Kang and Kodos are both Aliens who murdered the candidates and bodysnatched them so they could rig the election? Why do you keep bringing that up all the time??

    Trump is a convicted felon. He has been found guilty of rape in a court of law (you might think it's useful to debate whether his finger or fallus defines rape but best of luck with that)

    If these were the only reasons for not selecting him as president, they'd be pretty strong arguments on their own. But they're also accompanied by millions of other reasons

    He's a liar

    He's old and frail

    He's boring and rants and raves like a lunatic

    He's ignorant about basic facts, (Science, History, Geography)

    He's failed multiple times in business, and had to file for bankruptcy

    He cheats at Golf

    He cheats on his wives

    He cheats on his taxes

    He defaults on his debts

    He's a terrible judge of character and hires terrible staff

    He's a war monger who wants war with Iran and wants to support Israel in their attempts to destablise the middle east

    He's a science denier, he is determined to roll back all progress on tackling climate change

    He is a massive racist

    He doesn't care if states roll back all reproductive rights, including even the right to use contraception

    He doesn't respect democracy

    He doesn't support the peaceful transition of power (if he loses)

    He is lying about his own policy positions and whether he supports the 'Project 2025' documents

    He looks wierd

    He managed to make a story about surviving a bullet to the head sound so boring that people have already forgotten that even happened

    He is lazy, he worked fewer hours than any president in recent memory

    He is barely literate, he speaks and writes at the level of an 8 year old

    He has no diplomacy skills, in his time as president, he was a laughing stock internationally, and rude and insulting to other world leaders

    The people he will likely install in his cabinet are actual neo-nazis and fascists

    ……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    “Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the bird is going to **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway.”

    - Shannon L. Alder -



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Trumps choice of VP was a major error on his part and may yet cost him the election - a VP throughout the election is chosen to help shore up certain voters that the candidate themselves find hard to attract- Trump just picked a mini-me.

    Harris needs to keep close to her VP throughout this election - just to ensure any doubters can be reassured



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    and yet he’s only 4 points behind in current poll I posted above - you’d think it would be more wouldn’t you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,711 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    You keep mentioning doubts about Harris. But you fail to mention the massive, and clear, doubts about Trump.

    He is a convicted fraudster and sexual assailant. He is currently going through the legal process in regard to stealing and refusing to return, classified documents. His massive tax cut failed to drive growth in the economy, he promised 5 to 6%.

    He is clearly much older, and all his recent speeches and debates show a man who is struggling to keep pace.

    He is struggling for money. He owes 500m in court fines with apparently no way to pay. His fundraising is miles behind Harris. Any fundraising is going to keep his legal issues on the long finger in the hopes of getting elected and being able to quash them all.

    The momentum is with Harris. Doesn't mean she will win, but it is hard to see how Trump is going to make any changes to turn things around. His base is a given, nothing will change their minds. But we have seen his support drop off as Biden was replaced. The polls all showed that voters didn't like that Biden was so old and that raised concerns, concerns that were solidified with his debate performance.

    But Harris doesn't have any of those issues regarding age. Trump very much does. The swings in the polling in relation to mental ability etc are massive. Trump had 30+ point leads over Biden and that has now been reversed. There was always talk of how Trump would win over Biden voters, the age and mental ability seemed to be the way to do it. That has all been lost now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,861 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I genuinely think that the "undecided" element will mean that current polling will turn out to be wildly wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Not really, I think Harris' momentum will grow a bit more, maybe to 7 points. But look at any previous election and the candidate maybe gets the popular vote by 2%. The reality is there's a proportion of the US population that will vote GOP no matter what. Equally there's a proportion of the population who would never care about how low Trump goes.

    Harris needs to target key states and that's the biggest priority. That appears to be what she's doing.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,117 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    why not explore why so many people still support Trump, given all that’s happened?

    Because politics in the US has ossified so much that if Trump was running against FDR he'd still have a baseline of about 44% support.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    There’s still “unknowns” for Harris- true her opponent is weak but he’s not written off yet- why? Will he be post debate? Lets see.


    Harris’ ethnicity unfortunately will lose her some votes - that’s just how America rolls unfortunately. Her gender will also lose her some votes- again unfortunate but we know there’s glass ceilings everywhere- hopefully her VP choice can counteract some of these voters. Then there’s the mobilisation of many groups on polling day who are reluctant to go out and vote- that’s a mammoth task and can’t be underestimated - fine if you lead in the polls but if your people don’t come out to vote on the day, it’s all meaningless.

    There are people here saying “Harris will win”- I’m ignoring such posts as it’s way too early to call it and we’ve seen such rubbish predictions in the past turn to dust on the day- the Republicans or Trump at least, is going to fight dirty - we know that- will it impact Harris, let’s see. What Trump promises for the economy will be key and how he paints Harris as a failed VP which he’ll do, will also be key- if certain undecided voters believe Trump is better for their oaychecks and pockets , all the moral arguements in the world won’t change that.



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