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Air Corps SAR

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    It's long been said that DAA would like to be rid of executive jet movements also. They can account for fifty movements a day, often park for days at a time and also the aircraft themselves are getting ever larger. The western ramp area that most now use could probably be better utilised but there's no alternative at the moment. I think the SAR base issue has to be looked at in this context. It's not a completely standalone issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Air Corps have come out swinging at Bristows consutants Rose Aviation. To say they are not impressed with them is an under statement. I cant put the link up but go to South Dublin County Councils Planning website and you will see an angry Air Corps.

    Ironically the consultant that the air corps have an issue with is recruiting techs for the Air Corps PC9s!

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭vswr


    They just highlighted the fact they're a pack of lazy f***s.

    Roughly 1.5 busts per month currently. Using this as a basis for extrapolating future busts (forgetting Weston is a leisure/teaching airport, busts go hand in hand with these locations, and then comparing it to professional pilots).

    They usually have 2 controllers there, similar to Solent Radar in the UK, which deals with roughly 100 busts per year, while deconflicting departing and arriving traffic from Bournemouth and Southampton, liaising with Farnborough, and coping with numerous private airfields and 3 military areas. My heart bleeds for them when they have to deconflict a helicopter from 2 or 3 aircraft in touch and go pattern.

    They complain the wrong ref map was used, as the IFR "touches" their (not always active) R zone airspace.

    Why isn't this highlighted for the numerous private jets in and out recently.

    The same airspace is transited for mountain and some west coast ops, why is it not an issue now?

    Majority of OPS are along the coast (i.e. away from Bal restricted airspace).

    If they are that concerned, simply liaise with ATC over the phone before take off, contact Bal tower for direct deconfliction, or use Dublin tower to allow radar service around the restriction zone.

    Bal Tower are notorious for not answering the phone though… "too busy"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation/stations/raf-lossiemouth/news/raf-lossiemouth-hosts-irish-air-corps-for-search-and-rescue-cooperation-discussions/



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Jonny the SAR talks is just a cover story they where showing the Casa Crew how to deploy anti ship missiles!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Roadie...You and I both know this.…but don't let on to the general public…Mums the word!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    All is not well, some serious posting on PPRUNE.

    https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/652998-bristow-wins-irish-sar.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Nothing more valid than the speculation you see on here too.

    Ultimately the Dept of Transport will have a word with all concerned and say 'the decision has been made here, now make it happen or face the consequences'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Well tomorrow is D Day for Weston as planning is due . If its not given the Department of Transport haa a issue as they are the ones that stated in Tender Docs the East Coast Base must be within 25km of Dublin Airport. This really meant DOT/IRCG was saying weston will be your base as they knew DAA wanted the base out of Dublin Airport.

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see 2excel are offering 35k basic for the SARO role based out of shannon. I know there is prob shift allowence on top of that but that seams very low starting point compare to an Air Corps SARO with a few years under the operators belt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Bristow got planning. The condions read like a further RFI. The Contrabutions they will have to pay are hefty i wonder did they factor them in the tender price . Id expect plenty of objections and court cases ahead.

    The below is the condation in responce to the Air Corps Letter.

    Prior to the commencement of the SAR service from Weston Airport, the developer shall engage and have in-person meetings (at least 3 no.) with representatives from the Department of Defence and Air Corps as well as representatives from Civilian Air Traffic Control Service or Irish Aviation Authority to address the concerns in the submissions received by the Air Corps. Following this consultation, the report submitted by Rose Aviation shall be revised to include details of the foregoing (including meeting minutes) and a revised report provided to the Department of Defence and Air Corps and Irish Aviation Service for comment and thereafter submitted to the Planning Authority for its written agreement. REASON: To improve understanding and agreement in relation to the operation of the SAR service from Weston and Knock-ons for Casement Aerodrome and having regard to Policy IE9 of the CDP - Casemount Aerodrome



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Did they? Well colour me shocked.

    The Dept of Transport will pay the planning contribution, and there can't be any more objections, only the Court challenge you mention to seek a judicial review. And that judicial review will only be granted if there is strong prima facie evidence that An Bord somehow erred in law in its granting of the decision.

    And given that this is a relatively simple grant, compared to some of complex public infrastructure An Bord deals with, I don't expect such a review to take place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    With the contract starting in October its a bit late in the day for this messing starting to happen.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/helicopter-crews-fear-employment-status-will-be-affected-by-new-coast-guard-rescue-contract-6457277-Aug2024/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The TUPE process is clear and mandated in law.

    There is no obligation to resign from anything. A new contract will supercede their CHC one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I believe a file has been sent or is been sent to ABP before the deadline and with the back up there it could be 12/15 months before the case can be heard so no base will be built untill next year at the earliest.

    But Bristow have have rented out Hanger space at the other end of the field so they will be able to operate.

    The Airfield is only 8 to 8 so i dont know how that will work before the case is sorted out. I also assume the heavy maintance will go to someother base untill the issue is resolved.

    We do nothing straighforward in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    What party/parties is appealing to ABP, do you know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I probably cant name anyone as it would be taken down by the Mods but if you read the submissions you will get an idea who is likely to put in an appeal.

    Weston has had ABP rule against it in the mid 00s over what some of the submissions had raised. The state bodys have not helped raising safety issues which will be used in any appeal.

    Nearly all the submissions come from Kildare so SDCC dont have to really worry about what they say but ABP do.

    Its a complete mess and could drag out for a while.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The appellant and any documents pertaining to it must all be listed online. They'll be on either or both the ABP and SDCC websites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭davetherave


    If I have my dates right, there is another 2 weeks for appeals to ABP. South Dublin made their decision on 6th of August and appeals of that must be made within 4 weeks of the council. There isn't anything listed yet but should be up here I think on the 6th of September



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    The first actual AW189 for the Irish contract arrived at Weston a short while ago. EI-IRR is the registration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Here she is pictured last month at Grenchen Regional Airport in Switzerland.

    Photo credit: Adrian Romang



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is waterford the 1st base in Q4 this year to go live?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Not much ground clearance there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    As expected the planning has gone to ABP.

    APB-320668-24

    This will not stop bristow operating as it is the new base that is been objected to. Bristow have leased hanger space that is already there so they can work away. The messy part is weston is 8am to 8pm operation which appears to be a self regulation and not a legal one.

    So the helicopters technically from i understand can work 24 hours and the only way to stop them is court injunction.

    Fun times ahead for everyone involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see in the appeals to ABP the air corps submission is been used as one the reasons to overturn the grant by SDCC. Base is due to come online 1st July and ABP outcome will be in January.

    Again from what i understand even if is overturned there ia nothing to stop bristow operating the way the have setup at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    In today's Indo, one of the objectors is throwing in the recent Bell 505 fatal crash in Westmeath as a factor causing him concern. Nothing that people won't add in if they think it might add weight to their appeal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm deeply and genuinely embarrassed for his family.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    So basically this is the mess that happens when you move from an AW247/365 Airport to a daylight only airfield.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    This is not Bristows fault. DAA did not want IRCG at the airport and DOT stated in the contract the new Base had to be within 25km of dublin airport knowing DAA wanted them out and that weston was really the only option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    The constant crying about the S92 being replaced is really getting repetitive and adds nothing to the discussion.

    The contract is awarded. Lets move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭vswr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,619 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Interesting article, I had forgotten that the S92 was the platform for POTUS. Unlikely to be affected by the shortage though as didn't we hear that they had acquired supply of spares for those airframes in advance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Sindo has a report that Stripe billionaire John Collison is injecting 40 mil into Weston to improve its attractiveness as a Biz Jet hub. The investment will install ILS and otherwise upgrade the airfield and accommodations.

    That'll give the SAR objectors something to really be concerned about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    I am only a layperson but would be interesting to see how an ILS for either runway direction (07 or 25) at Weston would be accommodated having regard to Dublin and Baldonnel airspace and traffic. Not saying it couldn't be done but there would need to be a level of traffic coordination and separation that is not required at present.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They are about to start the runway lighting upgrade.

    https://planning.agileapplications.ie/southdublin/application-details/65631



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭vswr


    It's easily done… but no doubt the IAA will make a regulatory dogs dinner of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    My thoughts precisely.

    Given there has been a lot of talk around here the last few days about folk being "asleep at the wheel", it occurs to me that there are a number of crises building in Irish civil aviation that could certainly be attributed to the IAA being similarly ineffectual.

    Though thats for another Forum I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭vswr


    There's no "could"… they are attributable for a lot of bottlenecks …

    Since the split from IAA to IAA and ANI, it's added 2 or3 layers of regulatory oversight. It was never as bureaucratic when it was a single entity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    Actually, reading the article in the Indo, it refers to Weston currently working through a process with the IAA to reinstate instrument landing procedures that lapsed during Covid. Also, it quotes Bristow saying that while Weston does not have an ILS, the airport is currently developing instrument procedures which will be in place prior to the commencement of operations by Bristow from Weston in June 2025. The Weston Airport website mentions a VOR based instrument approach on runway 25, pending IAA approval. So it doesn't sound like an ILS is being contemplated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    They are smaller in every metric, have you stood beside one? Clearly you havent stood beside either an AW189 or S92.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Back to bed there good lad.

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2024-03-04/resurgence-sikorskys-helibus



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,619 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    What is actually with the shittyness and one-upmanship on this thread? Honestly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭vswr


    It's hilarious… when I first joined, I went through:

    -You know nothing

    -My best mates in the Coastguard so knows everything, you're wrong

    -See this link from a year ago, you're wrong

    -You work for CHC what are you giving out contract info for, you're wrong

    As someone in the industry, you drop a few facts and it gets these unqualified experts rightly riled up, it's quite hilarious.

    The amount of incorrect information through the thread is comical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,319 ✭✭✭emo72


    Grown men (I'll assume) arguing over the size of helicopters. Have yis any idea how ridiculous this looks?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see 2excel are advertising now also for 1st officers on the King Airs for the Top Cover contract with a salarys of 44k. Would that be correct or is it a typo?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,389 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The debate over the replacement of one helicopter type with a smaller one, is perfectly valid in the context of public service and safety for all concerned, especially after Rescue 116. So do not be so bloody condescending.

    That said, the process is all but concluded, the tender was met, and experts greater than any person here have made the decision, endorsed by the line Minister.

    End of.



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