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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭PolicemanFox




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    What's Leo Bolger talking about here ? (French is double Dutch to me and subtitles are crap)

    Also, (sorry for all the questions), but is there any mention in Sophie's diaries or journals about Alfie and Shirley or Leo and Sally Bolger?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,276 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Apparently Bailey dropped in some food to Alfie and Shirley as they couldn'd drive into town while the end of their drive was being "preserved" as a crime scene.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I gathered that much, but my question was to @PolicemanFox. If Bailey was allowed up to Alfie's with Leo Bolger, was it before or after he went up there with Jules? What was his excuse for his visit with Jules on Fri 27th?

    Edit;

    Just looked again and it appears Leo Bolger says it was 6 or 7 days after the murder, so 3 or 4 days after he had been up to Alfie's with Jules. What was his excuse for that visit?

    Post edited by chooseusername at


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The whole murder case of Sophie Toscan du Plantier shines a very bad light onto the French jucial system. Either it's flawed by design, or it's flawed due to influencial friends, - otherwise I can't explain it.

    So Bailey was suspected and arrested because of a statement by Marie Farrell which was later withdrawn. She called it "total bullsh…." that she's seen Bailey on that night. She also stated that she was coerced to that statement.

    And even if Bailey would have been out that night at Kealfadda Bridge it doesn't prove murder not in an Irish or a British court. Remember that Marie Farrell was out at the same time with a man at Kealfadda Bridge and nobody tried to pin the murder on her and that mysterious male compagnion.

    Sophie's son believes that there is "hundreds of evidence" ( as stated in one video interview ) pointing to Bailey? Apparently he's putting this statement of his in context to Bailey beating his partner Jules not in terms of real evidence.

    In Ireland the police may have done a bad job, but not the judge as there is no evidence at all to connect murderer to crime scene or victimg to ever convict Bailey.

    I do understand that Sophie's son is upset that the murder is still unsolved. but is the French judicial system really that flawed?

    The idea that under the French judicial system one can be sentenced to prison for murder without any evidence beyond reasonable doubt scares me. And even if evidence is withdrawn the French judicial system can still used it against somebody ? ( suppose it would have been myself being out that night at Kealfadda Bridge, or any of us….) Even worse that Sophie's son believes in that.

    I still doubt to this day that the conviction for murder of Ian Bailey would have stood up at the European court of justice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Its a bit more nuanced than that.

    The French system incorporates a check and balance system at every stage of the investigative process.

    Our system simply allows the investigation to proceed to the point where the Gardai arec satisfied that they have a case and present the evidence file to the dept of Public Prosecutions for scrutiny.

    When the evidence was presented to the French courts, it had not been through the French investigative process and was taken at face value.



  • Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    My guess is that it was an attempt to get an early/inside track on the situation to enable him to steal a march on the other reporters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,517 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Elements of the French judicial system would have to be aware though of this distinction when dealing with extra judicial cases and evidence.

    That it should not just be presented to court like that.

    I think it was done that way because it suuited them.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭jesuisjuste


    The way it works from my understanding is that they recognise that somebody did the crime, and therefore when all the evidence is gathered appropriately, and investigation is conducted properly, then whoever the 'bouquet' of evidence points towards is the highest likelihood killer. If there was no clear direction, the investigators would admit defeat and it would not be taken to trial.

    In this case it is a mashing together of the Irish investigation team, and the French judicial system. They would say that the (Irish) investigating team felt there was more than enough to go to trial, and the evidence only pointed to Bailey. The Irish team did not admit any evidence that pointed elsewhere, and furthermore claimed they were convinced it was Bailey. Therefore it went to trial and everything was taken as gospel on the French side. It's a nonsensical situation, but the French felt that the Irish justice system broke down, and therefore they should take it on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,805 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    ….



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,624 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    Such a tragic case.

    My mind keeps coming back to this 90pc of cases are someone close either near by or husband etc.

    Alfie was having a row with her he did have cuts on his hand very weird they heard or saw nothing (in staircase audio was done to see could music drown out screams)

    Was Alfie the one having baths whoever that was it's dodgy

    They though the gross corruption of the guards pages missed etc etc steers you to protecting someone higher up.

    So many angles it's like a snow sperhe shake it you get a new picture..



  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Zola1000


    Still fine for french consider the Irish system to be broken down and yet they still take the files and happy to reach the conclusion it was bailey. Don't want any Irish investigation taking place on french soul. Was french system not broken not to in way unearth the suspicions Sophie's family had of Daniel and the life he was leading and if he even cared for Sophie. In any estimation his behaviour in not travelling to Ireland immediately after murder and not willing to be involved in investigation or welcoming a new family with his partner with months later is ultimately on par with any of chief suspects for entire case. That could be bouquet of evidence in itself if it was process adopted in Irish system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭champchamp


    I don't remember seeing an "unopened bottle of champagne" in the kitchen photos, is that correct?



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