BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

L1011 · 24-05-2017 3:59pm

In to Lucan and Chapelizod for most buses. Even X services piss around

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 4:01pm

lxflyer wrote: »

What meandering is there on the Lucan QBC?

66/a/b and 67 take the scenic route from LV in. I occasionally hop off my bus and onto a 25a or b if there's one due when we get to Woodies in Lucan as they run straight in the Chapelizod bypass. Mind you since they got rid of the T90 I don't do it so much.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:18pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Unless there is time based ticketing with no penalty for taking a second trip, and the feeder routes are high frequency, then there is absolutely no point in doing g this.

Reform of funding and ticketing is absolutely critical. People will not be prepared to pay twice for a trip they can do on a single fare currently.

What meandering is there on the Lucan QBC?

Unless there is change then there will be no change? Obvously.:rolleyes: This is obviously a change to take into consideration a new fare structure should it arise!

You have an awful habit. Sometimes people post here with things like what I said above. It does not mean they are being posted in isolation of other required changes to make them work. It's a case of simplicity of posting. Surely you realise that? Or must every post on any PT subject include ALL solutions and variables?

There is no need to be so highly strung in response.

Meandering includes the likes of Foxborough for EVERY bus. Simple things like removing that diversion for EVERY bus through that part of Lucan would improve journey times no end on affected buses and allow people in Willsbrook to actually get a bus on time some mornings.

Just one example off the top of my head. Not to mention the Chapo sitch on the 66/67.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

66/a/b and 67 take the scenic route from LV in. I occasionally hop off my bus and onto a 25a or b if there's one due when we get to Woodies in Lucan as they run straight in the Chapelizod bypass. Mind you since they got rid of the T90 I don't do it so much.

Come on - it takes 5 minutes maximum more to go via Chapelizod during the day - and much of the time the buses reach the Quays at the same time. Also, it's hardly meandering as it is mainly in a straight line. Let's not go OTT about it.

At peak times the 66X and 67X operate to and from Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth along the Chapelizod bypass.

Stephen15 · 24-05-2017 4:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Mind you since they got rid of the T90 I don't do it so much.

Slightly off topic but now that you mention it. I sometimes that instead of introducing the leap card they should have brought in a system of T90 tickets valid across Bus, Dart and Luas at a maybe say €2 a ticket or €10 for a book of 10. I know a number of cities have that system and I believe it facilitate inter modal journeys better.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:21pm

lxflyer wrote: »

But that did ultimately go through according to the plan - the 4 was extended, the 63 serves the local area, and the 46a takes the direct route.

It did. But you remember the attempted political interference to stop the change? DO you?

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:22pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Come on - it takes 5 minutes maximum more to go via Chapelizod during the day - and much of the time the buses reach the Quays at the same time. Also, it's hardly meandering as it is mainly in a straight line. Let's not go OTT about it.

At peak times the 66X and 67X operate to and from Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth along the Chapelizod bypass.

So you're saying it takes 5min max at rush hour in both directions to make that journey?

Or maybe at 11am? Whgen less traffic is about?

If there was that negligible difference why bypass Chapo at all?

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:24pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Unless there is change then there will be no change? Obvously.:rolleyes: This is obviously a change to take into consideration a new fare structure should it arise!

You have an awful habit. Sometimes people post here with things like what I said above. It does not mean they are being posted in isolation of other required changes to make them work. It's a case of simplicity of posting. Surely you realise that? Or must every post on any PT subject include ALL solutions and variables?

There is no need to be so highly strung in response.

Meandering includes the likes of Foxborough for EVERY bus. Simple things like removing that diversion for EVERY bus through that part of Lucan would improve journey times no end on affected buses and allow people in Willsbrook to actually get a bus on time some mornings.

Just one example off the top of my head. Not to mention the Chapo sitch on the 66/67.

The reason I posted my comment re fares and frequency is that is that we do not have a good track record of implementing changes such as that - in fact it has been atrocious. Most feeder routes that have been tried over the years have had terrible frequencies that would mean people waiting for ages, and having to pay twice.

I wasn't aiming it particularly at you - I was making a general comment.

Don't take it so personally.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:28pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're saying it takes 5min max at rush hour in both directions to make that journey?

Or maybe at 11am? Whgen less traffic is about?

If there was that negligible difference why bypass Chapo at all?

At rush hour there are Xpressos - most people from Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth use them at those times.

Off-peak and going against peak traffic flow the difference between using the bypass and going via Chapelizod is most definitely 5 minutes - I commuted for almost four years on that corridor against peak flow.

There is also a reasonable traffic flow between Chapelizod and Lucan, Leixlip, Maynooth and Celbridge.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:29pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The reason I posted my comment re fares and frequency is that is that we do not have a good track record of implementing changes such as that - in fact it has been atrocious. Most feeder routes that have been tried over the years have had terrible frequencies that would mean people waiting for ages, and having to pay twice.

I wasn't aiming it particularly at you - I was making a general comment.

Don't take it so personally.

You make similar comments all the time. You really need to chill when people stress opinions.

Yes you are completely correct about what went before but you woudl have to assume that that scenario won't happen again (until it does). Frequent feeder routes with coherent timetabling in the absence of mass-rail is the solution we should be shouting for.

I concentrate on the Lucan QBC as it's what I know best. But imagine the 37/38/39/70 group of routes if they weren't as brutal as now and instead had feeder routes augmenting a more direct service?

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:37pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It did. But you remember the attempted political interference to stop the change? DO you?

I do but it failed! It's hardly a good example of political interference stopping change.

The more recent shenanigans in Sallynoggin would be better as it resulted in an unholy mess inbound between the 7 and 7A.

On the other hand I also remember ideas such as restricting the 68 and 69 to Red Cow, remaining at low frequency, and local opposition making it clear that wasn't acceptable - no one could predict what time they needed to leave the city centre on a LUAS to get to Red Cow in time, and they would have to pay twice. Yet that was seen as a good idea!

Another crazy idea was cutting the 11 in two and dropping half the route - again opposition from passengers and local politicans stopped that daft idea as the route has significant cross-city patronage.

Public consultation is still important - it raises local issues that consultants can not be aware of - the point is that the response needs to be appropriate.

They don't always get it right, nor indeed do local activists.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:40pm

lxflyer wrote: »

At rush hour there are Xpressos - most people from Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth use them at those times.

Off-peak and going against peak traffic flow the difference between using the bypass and going via Chapelizod is most definitely 5 minutes - I commuted for almost four years on that corridor against peak flow.

I'm not buying it. It just can't possibly be that quick. Can't.

Quick googling gives at least 10min difference ca. 830am of a Wednesday with no rain etc.

(that 12min journey seems to be a phantom 25B that uses Laurences Hill!!!

:D:D)

https://goo.gl/maps/VPa7W3BpZ8m

I used the journey from the stop at the Palmerstown Topaz Eastbound to the stop on Sarsfield Quay which are the only 2 shared stops between routes.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:48pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You make similar comments all the time. You really need to chill when people stress opinions.

Yes you are completely correct about what went before but you woudl have to assume that that scenario won't happen again (until it does). Frequent feeder routes with coherent timetabling in the absence of mass-rail is the solution we should be shouting for.

I concentrate on the Lucan QBC as it's what I know best. But imagine the 37/38/39/70 group of routes if they weren't as brutal as now and instead had feeder routes augmenting a more direct service?

Look don't take it in any way personally.

But I've observed our public transport for over 30 years and nothing yet has indicated to me that we are going to suddenly get this right.

We have an appalling track record when it comes to implementing change with regard to the bus network, connections, timetable integration and bus priority.

The current nonsense that are the plans in the city centre (sending southbound cross-city buses in a loop around D'Olier St, College St and Westmoreland St before going into the Quays and then looping back onto Dame St) only reinforces my cynicism.

Again I'm not aiming that at you - I am just massively frustrated by the crap that the planners keep spewing out, such as re-routing up to 45 extra buses onto Ormond Quay Upper between 08:00 and 09:00 and no extra bus priority on that section.

I'll continue to point out issues, which may seem to be the "bleeding obvious" to you, because the planners keep making the same mistakes again and again.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 4:50pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I'm not buying it. It just can't possibly be that quick. Can't.

Quick googling gives at least 10min difference ca. 830am of a Wednesday with no rain etc.

(that 12min journey seems to be a phantom 25B that uses Laurences Hill!!! :D:D)

https://goo.gl/maps/VPa7W3BpZ8m

I used the journey from the stop at the Palmerstown Topaz Eastbound to the stop on Sarsfield Quay which are the only 2 shared stops between routes.

I commuted for four years leaving the city between 07:45 and 08:00 and returning between 17:30 and 20:00 and I can tell you that the time difference was 5 minutes between the two options.

I'm not making this up for the sake of it.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 4:56pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I do but it failed! It's hardly a good example of political interference stopping change.

I know it isn’t a good example per se, based on your metric. But it is a good example of political interference whipped up by politicians against DB rather than politicians being on DB’s side and trying to make transport better for all in their constituency! I worked in DL at the time and was keenly aware of the lengths that local councillors and TD’s went through to mess it up for votes.

The more recent shenanigans in Sallynoggin would be better as it resulted in an unholy mess inbound between the 7 and 7A.

An example of political interference is an example of political interference. It is not a pissing contest. The 7/7A sitch is a joke!!! Agreed!

On the other hand I also remember ideas such as restricting the 68 and 69 to Red Cow, remaining at low frequency, and local opposition making it clear that wasn't acceptable - no one could predict what time they needed to leave the city centre on a LUAS to get to Red Cow in time, and they would have to pay twice. Yet that was seen as a good idea!

Short workings and feeders only work with higher frequencies (:P) and that was rightly canned as you said. The 68 and 69 continue to be required as a service for Saggart and Rathcoole and as such should be left alone unless increased in frequency.

The 69 diversion through Inchicore should be dropped though. It’s mental to be on a bus as it swings into the Bulfin [sic] estate!

Another crazy idea was cutting the 11 in two and dropping half the route - again opposition from passengers and local politicans stopped that daft idea as the route has significant cross-city patronage.

Yup!

Public consultation is still important - it raises local issues that consultants cannot be aware of - the point is that the response needs to be appropriate.

I’m involved in public consultations professionally and they are very important. ESPECIALLY for local information.

However, it’s interference that is what kills Dublin’s PT!

Politician’s jobs’ should be to SELL these projects not to hinder them and as such they should be removed form affecting them outside of the normal use of their roles!

They don't always get it right, nor indeed do local activists.

Yup!

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:00pm

Well certain politicians raison d'etre seems to be nothing but the policy of saying no sadly and that's a fact of life I fear.

It's being able to counter them that's key.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:04pm

To be fair the 68 (yes not the 69!) does create a new link between the SCR and the Naas Road and that's not necessarily a bad idea.

But the route has very poor priority and and can take ages around James Hospital. Lack of proper priority kills it.

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 5:05pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I commuted for four years leaving the city between 07:45 and 08:00 and returning between 17:30 and 20:00 and I can tell you that the time difference was 5 minutes between the two options.

I'm not making this up for the sake of it.

I just provided evidence from TODAY (or a comparison of googles data for 830am today)!

You were going against the flow though!

Most people make the journey from West to East in the morning and East to West in the evening. This is the argument most people are on about. And clearly the bulk of passenger journeys. Your apparent 5min point is moot.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:07pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I just provided evidence from TODAY (or a comparison of googles data for 830am today)!

You were going against the flow though!

Most people make the journey from West to East in the morning and East to West in the evening. This is the argument most people are on about. And clearly the bulk of passenger journeys. Your apparent 5min point is moot.

I said off peak and against the flow.

At peak times the outer areas have Xpresso services using the Chapelizod bypass and most people going there use them - so the issue is minimised.

I think people are overstating the impact for that very reason.

I do think that four years' recent personal experience would count for something or do I consign that to the dustbin?

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 5:11pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Well certain politicians raison d'etre seems to be nothing but the policy of saying no sadly and that's a fact of life I fear.

It's being able to counter them that's key.

KISS!

That's what policy makers and consultants need to do.

Instead of saying "We are going to stop the 69 going past the red Cow", say "We are going to increase the frequency and lower the journey times of your journey to Dublin City/Tallaght etc"

No one can argue against tat logic! and a politician that does will be murdered next time at the polls. (or should be)

It is not a fact of life and we should be showing them up for the shams they are at EVERY opportunity.

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair the 68 (yes not the 69!) does create a new link between the SCR and the Naas Road and that's not necessarily a bad idea.

But the route has very poor priority and and can take ages around James Hospital. Lack of proper priority kills it.

Sorry the 68. I've only taken it once in years in both directions. But ya get me!

BonnieSituation · 24-05-2017 5:14pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I said off peak and against the flow.

At peak times the outer areas have Xpresso services using the Chapelizod bypass and most people going there use them - so the issue is minimised.

I think people are overstating the impact for that very reason.

I do think that four years' recent personal experience would count for something or do I consign that to the dustbin?

But against the flow is irrelevant when the bulk of journeys are made in the other direction and are the arguments that people on here are making about the routes through Chapo AT PEAK TIMES!

I've got 16 years experience living in Lucan [village and outerreaches] (with a few dalliances with apartment living in the city centre) as well as a childhood growing up in Ballyfermot. My experience is valid too mon frere.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:15pm

Well sadly RBB and his cabal have a certain amount of support - small in number but very effective at causing maximum disruption wherever possible.

I fear they are a fact of life, as there's no sign yet of them being eliminated at the polls.

I was trying to be realistic rather than optimistic in that regard.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:17pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But against the flow is irrelevant when the bulk of journeys are made in the other direction and are the arguments that people on here are making about the routes through Chapo AT PEAK TIMES!

I've got 16 years experience living in Lucan [village and outerreaches] (with a few dalliances with apartment living in the city centre) as well as a childhood growing up in Ballyfermot. My experience is valid too mon frere.

But again, most people from the outer areas use the Xpressos at peak times - the Chapelizod diversion on the standard routes becomes pretty much irrelevant at those times as the Xpressos go via the bypass.

You keep missing that point. The people using the bus at peak time in the morning through Chapelizod tend to be those actually going to/from points along that section.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 6:09pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Come on - it takes 5 minutes maximum more to go via Chapelizod during the day - and much of the time the buses reach the Quays at the same time. Also, it's hardly meandering as it is mainly in a straight line. Let's not go OTT about it.

You asked and got an answer you didn't like! At rush hour the 25a/b will beat the 66/67 comfortably between Lucan and the city centre, even going against the flow.

lxflyer wrote: »

peak times the 66X and 67X operate to and from Leixlip, Celbridge and Maynooth along the Chapelizod bypass.

The Xpressos don't run into town at evening rush hour. As for mornings there is only one 66X that serves where I live.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 6:16pm

lxflyer wrote: »

But again, most people from the outer areas use the Xpressos at peak times - the Chapelizod diversion on the standard routes becomes pretty much irrelevant at those times as the Xpressos go via the bypass.

You keep missing that point. The people using the bus at peak time in the morning through Chapelizod tend to be those actually going to/from points along that section.

People use the 66X/67X Xpressos because the standard routes are take too long. They're not using them because they're fast (they're not) they're using them because they're not as slow.

Proof of the pudding is that the 25X is virtually non existent in comparison as the 25a/b are direct.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 6:21pm

n97 mini wrote: »

People use the 66X/67X Xpressos because the standard routes are take too long. They're not using them because they're fast (they're not) they're using them because they're not as slow.

Proof of the pudding is that the 25X is virtually non existent in comparison as the 25a/b are direct.

But that is the point of the 66x and 67x at peak times.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 6:25pm

lxflyer wrote: »

But that is the point of the 66x and 67x at peak times.

Yes, whereas if the standard routes were more direct like the 25a/b there'd be a lot less need for the Xpressos.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 6:27pm

n97 mini wrote: »

You asked and got an answer you didn't like! At rush hour the 25a/b will beat the 66/67 comfortably between Lucan and the city centre, even going against the flow.

The Xpressos don't run into town at evening rush hour. As for mornings there is only one 66X that serves where I live.

Read all of my posts - point me to where I said that at peak time the difference was 5 minutes. All along I said during the day, off peak and at against peak flow.

At peak times the 66x and 67x provide faster alternatives to going via Chapelizod - no one is forced to take a bus that goes that way. Now let's be honest, you do have a choice at peak times - you also have the train.

Going into town in the evening peak the buses going via Chapelizod do not take more than five minutes longer than the 25a/25b via the bypass. I should know - I did that precise trip every day for 4 years.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 6:28pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, whereas if the standard routes were more direct like the 25a/b there'd be a lot less need for the Xpressos.

Something has to go via Chapelizod - how do you propose serving it and Islandbridge, and linking them to the points along the Lucan QBC.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 6:37pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Something has to go via Chapelizod - how do you propose serving it and Islandbridge, and linking them to the points along the Lucan QBC.

Something, not the entire north Kildare bus service.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 6:41pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Read all of my posts - point me to where I said that at peak time the difference was 5 minutes. All along I said during the day, off peak and at against peak flow.

At peak times the 66x and 67x provide faster alternatives to going via Chapelizod - no one is forced to take a bus that goes that way. Now let's be honest, you do have a choice at peak times - you also have the train.

Going into town in the evening peak the buses going via Chapelizod do not take more than five minutes longer than the 25a/25b via the bypass. I should know - I did that precise trip every day for 4 years.

At peak time I wouldn't entertain the notion of using the bus as the train will beat it every time in both directions. But that's the 66, which goes through Chapelizod so of course the train will beat it!

sharper · 24-05-2017 6:51pm

lxflyer wrote: »

But that is the point of the 66x and 67x at peak times.

Dublin bus's idea of "peak times" and traffic volume's idea of peak times are very different.

In the evening the 66x runs between 5-6pm. Traffic starts to hit peak volumes from 4pm onwards.

Another problem is the Xs that originate from UCD are often full by the time they hit the city centre so you can only count on the ones starting from Westmoreland Street of which there are only two.

If you want to work from 8pm-4pm you're pretty much out of luck unless you want to spend a decent chunk of your life sitting on a bus. If you happen to miss out on the couple of services on a given day because you get delayed then it makes a bad day worse.

The other issue it's quite hard to actually get on a 66 in the city centre anywhere around peak times because they're full of people travelling to Chapelizod/Lucan.

Today I left work at 4pm hoping to get a 66 home. The 16:05 which should hit the CC around 4:20 simply never showed up and the 16:15 didn't arrive until 16:35.

That got me to Maynooth at 17:35 while the 66x leaving an hour after I left work came 20 minutes later.

It's simply a bad experience and if I was trying to get to somewhere where there just wasn't much demand I could live with it but there are plenty of people going direct to justify a service running throughout the day - or at the very minimum across the modern idea of peak times and not the 80s version.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 7:38pm

I don't disagree about the need for more Xpressos - they're needed across the city covering outer suburbs and for longer periods particularly in the evening peak.

But resources are a real issue in terms of additional buses and drivers - the pace of introduction has been glacially slow.

Buses not showing up is a different problem with the ongoing LUAS works causing serious reliability issues and buses are getting caught in the associated traffic congestion.

StreetLight · 24-05-2017 7:44pm

Chapelizod should have one main bus route for the city - the 26 operating to and from the West County at an average 30-minute frequency, more at peak times. Everything else should be run along the Chapelizod Bypass.

The 25 should then be re-routed (and get more running time) to serve Kennelsfort Road, through Liffey Valley and back onto the Lucan Road.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 7:53pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Chapelizod should have one main bus route for the city - the 26 operating to and from the West County at an average 30-minute frequency, more at peak times. Everything else should be run along the Chapelizod Bypass.

The 25 should then be re-routed (and get more running time) to serve Kennelsfort Road, through Liffey Valley and back onto the Lucan Road.

That wouldn't even come close to meeting the demand in Chapelizod and Islandbridge - you're talking about a reduction in all day frequency from every 7-8 minutes (26, 66/a/b, and 67) to every 30 minutes.

Try selling that to bus users in those areas and see what their reaction is like! You'd be lynched.

How would people get to the points along the Lucan QBC if you terminate the route at the West County.

The numbers making that journey are not exactly insignificant.

Stephen15 · 24-05-2017 8:13pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That wouldn't even come close to meeting the demand in Chapelizod and Islandbridge - you're talking about a reduction in all day frequency from every 7-8 minutes (26, 66/a/b, and 67) to every 30 minutes.

Try selling that to bus users in those areas and see what their reaction is like! You'd be lynched.

How would people get to the points along the Lucan QBC if you terminate the route at the West County.

The numbers making that journey are not exactly insignificant.

Put bus stops with acess points on the bypass then.

ddx05 · 24-05-2017 8:15pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Chapelizod should have one main bus route for the city - the 26 operating to and from the West County at an average 30-minute frequency, more at peak times. Everything else should be run along the Chapelizod Bypass.

The 25 should then be re-routed (and get more running time) to serve Kennelsfort Road, through Liffey Valley and back onto the Lucan Road.

Dublin Bus will not do this though for the following reasons:

1 - There would be big opposition for a hefty reduction around Chapelizod and Islandbridge

2 - Dublin Bus know that people will pay a higher fare if it gets them to their destination quicker. Hence why the Xpressos cost more than their standard counterparts. If the 66/67 ran along the same routes as the 66x/67x, that would be revenue lost for DB and from a business point of view, there is no way they will allow that

3 - The 25 would have little purpose in running via Liffey Valley and the Kennelsfort Road as it would increase travel time for those using it from Dodsboro and Lucan Village, and the Kennelsfort Road already has the 26

StreetLight · 24-05-2017 8:17pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That wouldn't even come close to meeting the demand in Chapelizod and Islandbridge - you're talking about a reduction in all day frequency from every 7-8 minutes (26, 66/a/b, and 67) to every 30 minutes.

Try selling that to bus users in those areas and see what their reaction is like! You'd be lynched.

How would people get to the points along the Lucan QBC if you terminate the route at the West County.

The numbers making that journey are not exactly insignificant.

I think it would meet demand. I suggested a 30-minute average. There would obviously be a need for more departures at peak times, less at others.

Other connections to the Lucan Road QBC can be achieved from a re-routed 25.

Forcing a much higher patronage of bus users from the likes of Celbridge and Maynooth to travel through Chapelizod and Islandbridge, where traffic can be erratic and unpredictable, is not really fair on them.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 8:22pm

StreetLight wrote: »

I think it would meet demand. I suggested a 30-minute average. There would obviously be a need for more departures at peak times, less at others.

Other connections to the Lucan Road QBC can be achieved from a re-routed 25.

Forcing a much higher patronage of bus users from the likes of Celbridge and Maynooth to travel through Chapelizod and Islandbridge, where traffic can be erratic and unpredictable, is not really fair on them.

Chapelizod and Islandbridge have an all day frequency of every 7-8 minutes - not just at peak times.

You're talking about serious cuts in their service if you cut that to every 30 minutes average.

The solution for longer distance customers is to add more Xpresso services - increase their frequency and extend the operating hours.

Outside of the peak hours, the time difference is very limited between the two routes - no more than five minutes - if you want I'll put the actual RTPI timetables up here to prove that.

Removing a bus service, slashing frequency and connectivity is not the solution frankly.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 8:25pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Put bus stops with acess points on the bypass then.

Can I ask are you familiar with the route?

StreetLight · 24-05-2017 8:27pm

ddx05 wrote: »

If the 66/67 ran along the same routes as the 66x/67x, that would be revenue lost for DB and from a business point of view, there is no way they will allow that

But if the 66 and 67 ran along the bypass, there would be no more need for the 66X or 67X. These buses could then be added to an enhanced 66/67, thereby enticing more users attracted by the enhanced service.

Similarly when the 25A and 25B were re-routed along the bypass, the 25X was slashed, allowing buses to be utilised for better use.

sharper · 24-05-2017 8:38pm

ddx05 wrote: »

2 - Dublin Bus know that people will pay a higher fare if it gets them to their destination quicker. Hence why the Xpressos cost more than their standard counterparts. If the 66/67 ran along the same routes as the 66x/67x, that would be revenue lost for DB and from a business point of view, there is no way they will allow that

Most regular users of an X service are likely using some type of monthly/annual ticket. You pay the same whether you're using an X or not.

Stephen15 · 24-05-2017 9:16pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Can I ask are you familiar with the route?

Im not but judging by google maps they build passageways and areas for buses to pull in onto the bypass with bus stops.

sharper · 24-05-2017 9:33pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That wouldn't even come close to meeting the demand in Chapelizod and Islandbridge - you're talking about a reduction in all day frequency from every 7-8 minutes (26, 66/a/b, and 67) to every 30 minutes.

Try selling that to bus users in those areas and see what their reaction is like! You'd be lynched.

What happens if the consultants suggest this? It's obviously not possible to have more direct feeder services while maintaining the same frequency for the areas all the existing An Lar services traverse.

I'd be perfectly happy getting one service to Liffey Valley and then another to the city centre as was suggested if it meant I spent less time on the bus overall and less time trying to figure out if today is a "good" day to leave work before Dublin Bus deems it peak time.

My worry is I'll end up with a slow infrequent "feeder" service winding its way around to get to Liffey Valley. Then end up waiting a while there becuse there just aren't enough busses for everyone and still end up taking the slow route into the city. Essentially the 66 split into two in each direction and no X.

Then someone will tell me sure it would be nice to increase capacity but the resources just aren't there.

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 9:40pm

ddx05 wrote: »

Dublin Bus will not do this though for the following reasons:

1 - There would be big opposition for a hefty reduction around Chapelizod and Islandbridge

2 - Dublin Bus know that people will pay a higher fare if it gets them to their destination quicker. Hence why the Xpressos cost more than their standard counterparts. If the 66/67 ran along the same routes as the 66x/67x, that would be revenue lost for DB and from a business point of view, there is no way they will allow that

3 - The 25 would have little purpose in running via Liffey Valley and the Kennelsfort Road as it would increase travel time for those using it from Dodsboro and Lucan Village, and the Kennelsfort Road already has the 26

And they're all fair points, but none of them take into consideration the very large population beyond Chapelizod and what's best for them.

Arguably the 25a/b, which are very frequent and much shorter than the 66/67 should be running through Chapelizod with the 66/67 bypassing it.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 10:01pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Im not but judging by google maps they build passageways and areas for buses to pull in onto the bypass with bus stops.

I gathered as much by the fact that you even suggested it.

With respect go out for a trip on the 25a to Liffey Valley and back and you will realise how impossible a suggestion that is.

Stephen15 · 24-05-2017 10:26pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I gathered as much by the fact that you even suggested it.

With respect go out for a trip on the 25a to Liffey Valley and back and you will realise how impossible a suggestion that is.

Why would it be impossible if the proper infustructure was put in place to provide bus stops it would surely be doable?

n97 mini · 24-05-2017 10:37pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I gathered as much by the fact that you even suggested it.

In fairness that's an ad hominem defence: question the poster's credentials rather than the argument put forward by them.

Is there anyone in DB or the NTA that knows the entire network backways, and all the intricacies that go with it? Yet these people are the ones that decide who gets what.

StreetLight · 24-05-2017 10:42pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why would it be impossible if the proper infustructure was put in place to provide bus stops it would surely be doable?

Practically impossible. The bypass is not at-grade with any other road between Palmerstown and Con Colbert Road to allow pedestrian access to them, without building some significantly detailed walkways.

If you start getting buses to pull in somewhere along the bypass, it would negate the whole time-advantage of them running there in the first place.

Stephen15 · 24-05-2017 10:48pm

StreetLight wrote: »

Practically impossible. The bypass is not at-grade with any other road between Palmerstown and Con Colbert Road.

If you start getting buses to pull in somewhere along the bypass, it would negate the whole time-advantage of them running there in the first place.

Yes but they could build steps with a wheelchair ramp or lift up to the bus stops. Perhaps it would work better if they were to build a BRT there but not completely impossible.

What I meant was build bus stops where can pull in away from the road and not block the bus lane.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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