Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

1423424426428429453

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,943 ✭✭✭blackwhite




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,355 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The fact that some creep can not only hang around the grounds of a school when they have no business to be there, but enter the building, and then enter classrooms in use, and the law is more or less powerless to stop this behaviour on a repeated basis, is shocking.

    Legislation needed and severe penalties. It's Burke today, it could be some sex offender tomorrow.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Two years and counting in jail is a severe penalty.

    Cleary’s workers hung around the shop after it closed and their jobs were gone, and in my own parish, Vita Cortex workers entered and occupied the building, to protest their treatment, legislation to severely punish those who do just because of dislike for Enoch Burke, may have unintended consequences for legitimate protest after job loss.

    It could be you tomorrow as well as a sex offender.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I find it ludicrous that the Gardaí have no powers to remove him when there is a permanent High Court injunction ordering him to stay away from the school.

    What we need in this country is new legislation for the type of Restraining Orders where someone can be ordered to stay a set distance away from a person or place, that the Gardaí can be called upon to enforce.

    They created the "Isaac Wunder" Order for wasting court time - they could do this and call them "Burke" Orders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,072 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Were their children in Cleary's or Vita Cortex?

    Its a child protection issue now he is attracting even more unemployed to the school.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    The difference is they had been poorly treated and I would include Debenhams workers in that who were forcibly removed from picketing after their stores suddenly closed and they were not paid the agreed redundancy. Burke, on the other hand, has been treated fairly and by the book at every step. Everyone is being very careful not to put a foot wrong with him in fact.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There would still be scope for unintended consequences, everyone would believe their protest would be justified. Imagine a scenario where that would only be decided after a criminal trial.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    It is not even remotely the same thing…. I've been involved in a couple of liquidations where staff occupied the premises and the reality is that most of them will leave in a couple of days when it sinks in that there is nothing to be gained from it, they are not in fact interfering with the ongoing operations of a business and most importantly they are not in contempt of court but if they failed to comply with a court order they got the exact same deal Enoch is getting.

    I don't see any need for a change in the laws, the vast majority of people accept the court rulings, most of those that don't come to their senses after a couple of days in jail. Enoch is just a statistical outlier but is entitled to be treated the same as anyone else held in contempt. He just seems to be a very slow learner and if his purpose in life is to demonstrate the stupidity of his ways so be it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Child safety should always always trump any "legitimate protest".

    Neither example you gave is a school.

    The law doesn't need to be changed, it needs to be enforced.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What child safety issues are you referring to?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I agree with you, there probably aren’t any examples of the same thing. But if the posters is saying there should be more severe penalties for people who stand outside there place of work protesting, then the risk is those penalties will be applied not just to weird teachers protesting outside secondary schools.

    And yes, I know he went inside this week to a teachers meeting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,944 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    No because unless most of the far right loons and Coolock UVF members he isn't stupid. Himself and mammy know that they wouldn't have a hope of doing anything other than embarrassing numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Huh? You are definitely not paying attention and seem full bent on defending the cretins actions.

    An unhinged loon entering into the school and roaming the corridors. Absolutely no one for certain can state categorically what this strange individual is capable of. It's why we over engineer anything to do with child safety particularly in schools.

    Not to mention the criminal scum he is now attracting that are showing up outside the school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The risk is child safety.

    If he enters a school he gets arrested, it's exactly what would happen anyone else in this state.

    There is no need to pearl clutch peoples right to protest, it will be grand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    ANYONE who enters a school building MUST have express permission to do so and if they are to be alone with students they MUST be Garda vetted.

    Basic legislation to protect children.

    Enoch is a weird weird man. I would be livid if I thought he had the chance to get anywhere near my children.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We can only assume he was vetted, have the Gardai informed the school Enoch Burke poses a child safety risk?

    There is no defending him, pointing out that calling for more severe penalties than imprisonment for some standing outside a school may have unintended consequences for other, less contentious protests, isn’t hell bent on defending him.

    Though it’s suits your narrative to say otherwise, there is no indication that he poses a risk to children. He is a weird guy standing outside a school, and occasionally standing in a hall/room. He has in no way threatened the safety of children, if he has, post it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    There is no defending him, pointing out that calling for more severe penalties than imprisonment for some standing outside a school may have unintended consequences for other, less contentious protests, isn’t hell bent on defending him.

    No one is calling for more penalties, people are calling for the law to be enforced on the basis of child safety.

    No ones right to protest will be curtailed, complete strawman.

    Though it’s suits your narrative to say otherwise, there is no indication that he poses a risk to children. He is a weird guy standing outside a school, and occasionally standing in a hall/room. He has in no way threatened the safety of children, if he has, post it.

    Again you are missing the point, child safety is engineered so creeps like this don't get access therefore removing any possible threat.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The legal issue is around how they deal with the contempt of court.

    He has no intention of purging the contempt and they can't really keep him in jail indefinitely for contempt so what is needed is some method to convert that "contempt" into a fixed term offence.

    They can repeat that fixed term for as long as they like , but at least then it's an actual offence and removes the urge to let him out for the holidays etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @Boggles, it helps when you read the thread, the post I replied to, and you jumped on, outlined the need for legislation and “severe penalties”. Perhaps that puts my post into context for you, I have my doubts.

    Again, you are clearly missing the point, child safety protections absolutely should be applied where there is risk to children, so far you haven’t shown what risk Burke poses. There is no doubting he is weird, but that doesn’t make him a risk to children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    child safety protections absolutely should be applied where there is risk to children, so far you haven’t shown what risk Burke poses

    His presence is the risk, it's why we don't let people roam around schools. I can't believe I have to keep explaining that to someone.

    Also I fully imagine the child he singled out is suffering because of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    Of course it's a child safety issue. Imagine being the child originally at the centre of this controversy, having to put up with this crap day after day, year after year. Imagine how intimidated they, or Indeed any other LGBT kids there, feel every day they see him, and the impact that could have on their mental health as well as their academic performance. Think of the frustration that their parents must feel. Child safety is precisely the reason why he needs to be removed from school grounds. Your description of him as just some weird guy hanging around trivialises the matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Exactly for all strawmanning of peoples right to protest, it's complete BS.

    No civilised country should lock someone up indefinitely without a trial. It's Human Rights 101. Burke and his litigious cult know this, so there is only one place this is going, the highest court in Europe.

    The Burkes are in this for the long run, the state now need to remove the long suffering school from the equation and give them some peace, it has gone on long enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,299 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    If the ECJ have a better idea of how to deal with someone who constantly trespasses, I'm willing to hear it. I can't see them even hearing the case since the law is clear and there's no human rights being broken.

    Burke has been given every opportunity to end this fiasco. His freedom of speech isn't being suppressed. He can protest just about anywhere except in a school. He can leave prison any time he wants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I would be genuinely surprised if EB (or any of the Burkes for that matter) held any aspirations towards political office.

    I truly believe all they care about is upholding "God's word" (as they perceive it). Fanaticism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Ref the last Para in your post: Let no one ignore the reality and the narrative of what Enoch is doing standing outside or entering onto WHS property and school building. It is pure psychological intimidation, "I'm here and I am not going away any day now". Mere physical presence can be seen as a threat by a person, in this case at least one former pupil of WHS, who has been at the receiving end of Enoch's displeasure by way of his disrespectful and voluminous public broadcasting his dislike of the pupils personality and persona over at least 18 months now.

    He is doing so to intimidate any further transgender pupils from coming out about being transgender, while uttering fake claims that the school was and is - and now the courts are - denying him some religious right. His objection to transgenderism and people who are transgender are at the core of his activities at WHS, nothing else. Probably the only saving grace WHS has had is the non-presence of the Burke family et al standing alongside him at the school. Enoch is enough for the WHS students to have to pass on a daily basis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,491 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Law Reform Body already highlighted how our contempt laws may not be compatible with Human Rights and they recommended they be updated.

    This was over 20 years AFAIK and highlighted again in the last 10 years.

    The absence of clarity in the law of contempt in its current form may run contrary tothe individual’s right to a fair trial under both the Constitution of Ireland and theEuropean Convention on Human Rights. These considerations suggest that alegislative scheme for contempt is required. A number of judges and commentators have also noted this need for legislation



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,301 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    How very dare you....they are "citizen journalists" or some such nonsense



Advertisement