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Run an EV charger 7kw from a CEE wall socket?

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    You’ll still need the associated cabling back to the consumer unit, same as a EVSE.

    I seen Facebook offers it €699 for chargers supplied and installed. BG Sync I think they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    thanks, yes the installation point would only be a few meters away from the fuse board, on an external wall so not much to the installation and hopefully would be reflected in the labour cost. Therefore I then just need to buy something like what I linked above?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    But the labour cost would be the same for an EVSE (proper charger). They only difference is the cost of the charger point.

    Get one on adverts, Amazon, DoneDeal or similar. You’ll pick up one for the same price as that CEE plug.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I have no connection to above company and I cannot recommend them one way or another but at least they list prices. You also get 300 off this price with seai grant. The actual title price could vary depending on cable length etc.

    In terms of using a big blue plug, no electrician should install this for a home charger. Multiple reasons. There are regulations electricians must meet and they are quite stringent for EV chargers. For an example an isolator switch needs to be installed nearby (not required anywhere else in the world). They need to check your ESB meter, the thickness of the wires between ESB meter and fuse board. They need to check fuse board and fit specific breakers that I think are more expensive with extra features.

    Often they need to install a load sensor at the fuse board. This is important in case lots of heavy loads all come on at same time. E g. Triton instant shower (9kW), car charger (7kW), washing machine 2kW, dryer (2kW), dishwasher, hot water immersion, heat pump (7+kW) etc. All coming on at once is more common as many EVs take many hours to fill up and special low cost night rate plans give very cheap electricity from say 4am-6am so everything is timed to come on at once. If charger has load sending it can prevent overall overload and blowing of main ESB fuse. This can easily happen with above items. With a basic blue socket you don't have that feature which is really needed.

    Car charger installers like to install brands they know and can support for next 5-10 years. Often these cheaper units are not even waterproof. (I dried my cheap granny charger out with a hair dryer and now it is kept covered with a second box to keep the rain off. )

    To avail of seai grant the charger needs to be "smart". Having app control can be handy as you can start charging car from bed or check it has charged etc. Some chargers work with solar panels to fill car with free sunshine.

    If you consider you may have your charger for 10-20 years, probably longer than your EV then it's not a big cost. You can haggle with installers but often these jobs can take multiple visits, and they may need to help you set up the app, teach you how to use it etc. Sure some guys overcharge and under deliver, but get a few quotes over the phone and try get a guy local to you who can pop back if you have trouble. I would get electrician to source the charger as they get discounts. A zappi is 600 euro delivered on eBay Ireland from an Irish seller. Installers must get it for less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,545 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Not at all, there is nothing wrong with using a CEE plug for a portable charger,especially in an interlocked socket. Wired with the correct rcbo it's fine, no different really from any other appliance. Tesla sell it into the Irish market for example. The tesla one is only €250. The CEE adaptor for the granny charger is just €50 if you already have it.

    Yes you won't get load sensing in such a setup but the worst that will happen is that you blow the main fuse or trip the main breaker depending on your style of board. You have to manually manage demand. The good thing is there are not many houses where showers are taken in the middle of the night. Schedule the car to stop charging before the morning showers. If there is a risk of big simultaneous loads that take you over the rating for the main breaker then you need load sensing.

    .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,635 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Just get a proper install



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I do this, have 3 32A CEE plugs and use one of them as a regular charger for my EVs. I have a wallbox charger but it was finicky when it was installed so rather than fixing it I just use the other plug.

    Much cheaper than an EVSE and in these days of interconnected everything I like the idea of an analog charger with no smart gubbins to go wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Tesla is the best option if going this route, it's down to €200 now which is great value. I use one the whole time, perfectly fine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    any link? I have an Audi EV. Would it be compatible or is that even a thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,585 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    That's just for the cable. The point on the side of the house will require a spark to install

    You can buy the cable (mobile connector) from the below link for €200 but you will also need the "blue adapter" which is €48 also on this link. And yes, despite the tesla branding it will work with any car that takes the type 2 plug, which an Audi EV should have

    https://shop.tesla.com/en_ie/category/charging



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭CivilEx


    I'm curious on how cost effective this could be for a typical EV user today? Let's say an EV uses 250kWh per month and it is simply plugged in when you get home from work each evening.

    If the majority of this 250kWh is at a rate of €0.35/kWh instead of a cheap overnight rate of €0.07/kWh, then the difference in electricity cost is €70 per month (250 x (0.35-0.07)). Over 12 months that is €840…which is a lot of loot.

    Maybe I'm misinterpreting you here and the smart gubbins is in the EV i.e. a charging schedule is set up in the EV to charge only at cheap overnight rates. Dumb charging socket, but smart schedule in the car….assuming the software in the EV can do this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,545 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I use a morec one occasionally that I'm very happy with. I was going to get a tesla one but it doesn't as far as i can see have a readout on the electricity consumed which the morec has as well as selecting the max allowable current. I guess that info and functionality is available on the dash in a tesla.

    I have a 32a plug at a second property and didn't fancy installing another charger there. Additionally having the cee charger means I can also plug into plugs at family who have yet to go ev when I'm there. Having the readout on the charger let's me tell the person how much power I've consumed so they have comfort that I've covered the cost.

    A proper fixed charger is best obviously but the portable has its place too.

    https://www.morec-ev.com/collections/best-seller/products/morec-typ2-ev-charger-16a-24a-32a-cee-plug



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Cars all have scheduled charging. Mine charge on the 9 hours 12c window I have. We have an Ora, a Tesla and a leaf, and I have a tesla wallbox, a 7kW CEE plug, and a 16A CEE plug.Means I can charge all 3 cars overnight if needed (and dial down the tesla a bit).

    I use well over 250kWh a month, probably close to that per week. Couldnt be charging tha t at day rates!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    Ok, it just triggered with me that my car came with a CEE blue adapter for the granny mobile charger.. I've been using the granny charger with a 3 pin plug the last few weeks, but it does indeed come with a blue CEE adapter. I think I have everything I need already, so I'm really just looking to get a sparks in to do a professional job installing a 32a CEE external socket to supply 7.2kw to the car! Did I just save a few hundred euros :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Get a few quotes in from sparks just quoting for an install of the outdoor 32amp socket without mentioning anything about EV charging. That will let you know where you stand price wise to see if it's worth it.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles to avoid the DRS fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The UMC comes with a 16a adapter, the 32a was optional. Luckily it's only a few quid on the tesla shop. Much cheaper than a dedicated EVSE wallbox if you don't need it.
    https://shop.tesla.com/en_ie/product/blue-adapter---16a_32a-



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,545 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Get an interlocked ip65 32a socket for outside. They are more expensive than a standard socket (€70 vs €20) but they are a lot safer, especially if you are using it every day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,585 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The UMC comes with a 16a adapter, the 32a was optional.

    I presume this is a new thing as my UMC only came with a 3-pin last year. Or is it if you purchase the UMC from the tesla store as opposed to getting it with the car?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,585 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    An untethered branded car charger should cost in the region of 1k so if you can get

    1) the blue socket on the side of the wall

    2) the blue plug to car connection

    for less than €1k then you are saving money.

    What you seem to have already is the second of the above.

    As ELM327 correctly points out there is 32A and 16A variants of this so you may need to add the price of an adapter (or in the case of the UMC the corresponding head) depending on what socket and head you will install

    We are a wet country, go for the waterproof model as MrMusicain18 has suggested



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    They stopped that years back, UMC delivers with just the 3pin now for the last 2/3yrs, in fairness the original years of shipment probably never got used. I have my UMC1 32a adapter here on the desk as an ornament!



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    ..and the UMC now not included at all in purchase prices of Model3 etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,585 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Can be bought separately for €200, or added on before checkout if you want to add VRT to it. Anecdotal evidence from facebook that some cars are still coming with it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    OK so when I got my 3 teslas (last one in 2022) they all had the UMC with the blue 16A. If they arent doing that then yeah you have to buy the part but it's not expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    Can the Tesla mobile charger be used outdoor in the rain?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,585 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes, all car chargers are designed to be weatherproof because most people park their cars outdoors



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    Not that I dont trust ye, but is there any documentation on the Tesla mobile charger IP rated protection? The Audi one is IP55, which to me is not good enough for Irish weather. The side of my house where the charger will be gets a lot of driving rain, wind and is a heat trap during the summer.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Been using one for years, it's waterproof, the only stipulation is that the "charge" part of the unit is not left in standing water, it is a very popular solution in the US where they don't have to worry so much about load balancing and they get a lot worse rain and more heat than us



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,155 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    It's IP44, which is waterproof for non pressurised water (ie no standing water puddles submersing it and don't spray the pressure washer at it)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭ando


    I always thought IP65 was the recommended IP rating for outdoor electrical devices.. I could be wrong.

    Actually, I see a lot of EV wall chargers (including Ohme) are IP55



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