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Just short of five years requirement for pension

  • 26-08-2024 8:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭


    A friend has asked for help sorting out pension entitlements.

    They had a few weeks short of five years service in the early 1990s in the civil service.

    it seems that had they 5 full years they would have an entitlement to part of a public service pension, but as it’s less than 5 years they get zero

    • is there a way to buy back years up to the five?
    • Is the 5 years a hard rule (she is literally 4 weeks short)?
    • If she is not eligible for a public service pension for those years, does she get any entitlement to the contributory state pension for those years?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,137 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I see what you mean about five years:

    https://www.publicservicepensions.gov.ie/8/Superannuation_handbook_for_established_civil_servants.pdf

    Of course, when they left, their contributions would have been refunded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,137 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    In terms of PRSI, has she checked her SI record?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,854 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    The five years is a strict 5 years. She probably was refunded any contributions anyway. Contributory pension depends on the prsi rate she paid at. I suspect it was the lower rate so doesn't factor. She should have received info on this when she left.

    5/80ths of her final salary in the 90s would probably be next to nothing anyway .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Yes. A bunch of B1s for that period, and some B0 (whatever that is).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Ah… so Civil Servants make contributions that might have been refunded. If that's the case, then that's fair enough. At least she didn't leave something "on the table" by bailing after 4.95 years 😀



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,137 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Social insurance classes

    There are 11 different social insurance classes in Ireland. They are as follows:

    Class A applies to people in industrial, commercial and service type employment who are employed under a contract of service with a reckonable pay of €38 or more per week from employment. It also includes civil and public servants recruited from 6 April 1995. In fact, most employees in Ireland pay PRSI Class A. People on CE schemes pay a special contribution at Class A8/A9.

    Class J applies to people earning less than €38 per week. However, people aged over 70 or people in subsidiary employment are always insurable at Class J, no matter how much they earn. Subsidiary employment for Class J is for example, people who are insurable at Class B, C, D or H in their main employment. Only Occupational Injuries Benefit is covered by Class J social insurance.

    Class E applies to ministers of religion employed by the Church of Ireland Representative Body. It covers all social insurance payments except Jobseeker's Benefit and Occupational Injuries Benefit.

    Class B applies to civil servants and Gardaí recruited before 6 April 1995, and registered doctors and dentists employed in the Civil Service. It covers only a limited number of social insurance payments.

    Class C applies to commissioned Army Officers and members of the Army Nursing service recruited before 6 April 1995. It covers only a limited number of social insurance benefits.

    Class D applies to permanent and pensionable employees in the public service other than those mentioned in Classes B and C recruited before 6 April 1995. It covers only a limited number of social insurance payments.

    Class H applies to NCOs and enlisted personnel of the Defence Forces. It covers all social insurance payments except Occupational Injuries Benefit.

    Class K applies to public office holders with an income of over €5,200 a year. Public office holders with weekly income of €100 or less are recorded under Class M. Class K also applies to people who pay PRSI on unearned income. There are no social insurance payments for people insured under Class K.

    Class M applies to employees with no liability to contribute to social insurance such as employees under 16 years of age, people of pensionable age, currently 66 years or over (including people previously liable for Class S), people with an income of €500 or less and insured in Class K, people getting an occupational pension (on the Occupational Pension income only) or people within Class K with no contribution liability.

    Class M covers certain contributors with Occupational Injuries Benefit.

    Class S applies to self-employed people including certain company directors, people in business on their own account and people with income from investments and rents. It covers a limited number of social insurance payments.

    Class P applies to sharefishermen or sharefisherwomen who are classified as self-employed and who are already paying PRSI under Class S. It covers them for limited Jobseeker's Benefit, limited Illness Benefit and Treatment Benefit.

    If there is a problem in deciding what class of social insurance you should pay, the Scope Section in the DSP may decide the issue after examining your employment situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,137 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Class B benefits

    • Carer’s Benefit
    • Guardian’s Payment Contributory
    • Limited Occupational Injuries Benefits
    • Parent’s Benefit
    • Widow’s, Widower’s, or Surviving Civil Partner’s Contributory Pension



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Ah yes, but it's not fixed at the 1990s, but usually increases with the grade exited.

    "Preserved benefits are based on the member’s reckonable service up to their date of resignation and their pensionable remuneration at their date of resignation, uprated to include any pay increases applicable to the person’s grade which were passed onto to pensions in payment between the member’s resignation and reaching their preserved pension age."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,854 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    That's not a blanket clause. It doesn't cover all preserved pensions. Anyway, 5 years is 5 years. They don't have 5 years. What were they given when they left?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,650 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    She was not necessarily refunded her pension contributions when she left before 5 years service. Because if she had rejoined the public service, her previous service and contributions would have counted when calculating her pension entitlement. So tactically, it was better to leave her service on the record and not claim a refund.

    If she did not apply for a refund then, she should do so now. The amount will be small and they will probably deduct PAYE but she shoud apply nevertheless. Because she can't get any pension benefit from that service at this stage.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭3DataModem




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