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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Not to mention all the tech which allows people to work from home and not pointlessly commute (like I’m doing right now) and hence emit carbon dioxide

    But that seems to be the problem with the Luddite wing of the Green movement

    Their hate for science and technology overrides their main stated goals



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Getting the jobs/revenue/etc of tech but not having the cost such as data-centres is certainly a nice pick'n'mix, but that does not mean it is on the table. Suspect having Irish data-centres is part of the charade that allows FAANGs to still book EU-wide revenues in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Maybe "powered" is the wrong word as we are also talking about the electricity requirements but, yes, without data centres vast swathes of our industry would not able to cope as well.

    The same is true for every other country in the world and there's no reason it can't be more evenly distributed. Let's take the EU as one example where there are about 1200 data centres while Ireland has about 80

    Effectively we have 1% of the population of the EU and 6.7% of the data centres and all the emissions that come with that which is a bit skewed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    You are forgetting that we are hosting headquarters of quite few tech multinationals and that require some data traffic so no, it cant be evenly distributed. Not to mention that people here use much more data than people in some other EU countries.

    We do have what we need and as it seems we may actually need some more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Are we hosting 6.7% of all the tech multinationals?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Our emissions are skewed only because the Greens and green adjacents refuse to contemplate clean, cheap and reliable nuclear power and are fascinated by glossy marketing materials of companies that rely on China for “renewables” and the stupidity of Irish consumers who willingly pay the highest electricity costs in world to entertain these notions that still leaves us with some of the highest co2 emissions in Europe

    Not that it matters, the stupidity of actively obstructing high tech good tax paying industries that quite possibly help reduce overall global emissions on environmental grounds is daft



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭Kincora2017


    this is absolute rubbish. Ireland has been anti nuclear since the 70s, with large public support for anti Selafield protestors. In 1999, under a FF/PD government, this stance was passed into law by making nuclear power generation illegal essentially. In thr last general election, only 1 party was pro Nuclear (The Workers Party which managed to get 1% of the national vote, or less).
    There is little history of support for Nuclear in this country until very recently. So your ill informed views of nuclear in Ireland very little to do with the Greens as a minority party in the current government, and everything to do with national sentiment for the vast majority of the last 50 years.

    We have a general election coming up in the next few months. If nuclear is to be a consideration for Ireland in the near future, we’ll need to see at least some of the political parties express a willingness to run on a pro or nuclear platform. It’ll be very interesting to see if it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Data centers are at the center modern economies, even before the rise of internet transactions, credit and debit cards do not function, transactions must be reconciled with bank accounts at the end of the day, that requires power to drive the systems network, memory & CPUs. Quite a few people work in finance and accounting.

    Airlines and travel agents have been using networked computer systems for years. Payroll has been automated for many organisations, maybe some people here remember Cara payroll group. Telephone and communication networks are software driven, that requires data centers to link up the edge networks.

    You may have noticed that many businesses that may have been at the center of various towns business districts are long gone, and been replaced by chain stores all linked to different networks for payment processing and inventory control.
    Companies such as Argos & Maplin have bitten the dust unable to compete with internet shopping and courier delivery, If you have ordered online you will typically track the parcel and maybe even get an ETA.

    Modern economies depend on data centers to complete most business transactions, even if you are dealing in cash, somewhere on the back-end there is software running on a hosted data center where the small business has to file their accounts or lodge the money in the bank.

    Having the major centralized data centers are probably more efficient than having every company individually host their own servers. Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Equinix datacenters are hosting more than local Irish businesses, we should be looking for the cost benefit analysis numbers behind the data-centers that host the "cloud". I don't have any numbers for this.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Repeat that everytime you have to pay exorbitant electricity prices knowing they could be half the price and greener like France

    and whenever your pay for some of most expensive goods and services in europe

    And remember what you wrote when Ireland gets slapped with billions in fines because we got sold a pup



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  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭Kincora2017


    what are you on about? Do you think that if the Greens didn’t get in power at the last election that’d we enjoying the benefits of Nuclear power now? Presumably you were out canvassing for the Workers Party and the sole pro-Nuclear manifesto put to the people at the last election then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    The people doing the most scaremongering and crying about climate change are doing everything to not help solve the issue and are more interested in greenwashing and virtue signalling while ignoring science and engineering because it goes against the apocalyptic end of days narratives borrowed from religious cults



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,123 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Where ze Germans go we usually follow unfortunately. Yet another nail in the cheap renewable energy coffin

    https://x.com/BjornLomborg/status/1828860513125839215?t=-EWxPFoNZBdkYMhZCvuKmQ&s=19

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Was that reply meant for me? Nothing that I've said would contradict what you have written

    The people doing the most scaremongering and crying about climate change

    Such as who? Can you give an example of this?

    What does a kWh of electricity cost in Germany?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,123 ✭✭✭✭JRant




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Latest available from Bundesbank

    Imagine spending a couple of trillion on Energiewende policies

    And still endup with 6x average daily emissions of France next door (who spent a 10th of that on nuclear)

    And to add insult to injury one of the higher prices in Europe (tho we of course are determined to outdo the Germans)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Well considering Energiewende is still ongoing and Germany have a similar market to us, whereby the highest priced unit is what all the suppliers get paid, it is not much of a surprise.

    France runs mainly on relatively clean nuclear while Germany has decommissioned most (all?) of its reactors before doing the same to their oil, gas and coal plants. Once the fossil fuel plants are gone there should be a major shift in that figure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    It’s been 25 years almost into their Energiewende adventure with little to show for the trillions spent beside some of the largest electric prices and continued reliance on all the neighbours

    Here is a scathing IEEE article from 4 years ago

    Instead of learning from mistakes of others we want (and are) to follow the exact same path of stupidity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You forgot the annual emissions reduction of 3.5%, which is the only thing that would realistically have happened by now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    Mostly thanks to switch to gas and overall reduction in German economic output as their economy has flatlined for decades and … biomass



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    A switch to gas from nuclear would in theory increase GHG emissions or do you "believe" differently. As for the economic output the stats suggest you are incorrect 🧐🧐🧐

    https://kpmg.com/de/en/home/insights/overview/economic-key-facts-germany.html#:~:text=With%20a%20Gross%20Domestic%20Product,making%20it%20Europe's%20largest%20economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,207 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A switch from nuclear to gas generation will not just in theory increase emissions, it will in reality.

    Germany`s last 3 nuclear power plants prior to being shut down had a nameplate capacity of 4.285 GW with a capacity factor of 93% (4 GW). Germany in Feb. 2024 announced the construction of 4 large gas powered plants with a nameplate capacoty of 10GW. With a capacity factor of 55% they would generate 5.5 GW. Those 4 gas plants are to cost €16 Billion, and that doesn`t include the cost of LNG terminals which will be required to supply them.

    Those gas plants are required because not only have remewables not filled the gap due to Germany shutting down its last nuclear plants, they are required because renewables are not even keeping pace with demand.

    Germany`s own climate agency in 2023 said Germany was going to miss its 2030 target of cutting emissions by 60%, so those gas fired plants are not going to reduce that percentage. They are going to increase it after a spend of at least €20 Billion.

    German greens, similar to or own lot, have no real interest in reducing emissions. It`s all to do with the ideology. Even Greata Thunberg could not see any sense in Germany shutting down it`s nuclear power plants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    Be as distrustful of biomass here as across the Irish Sea.

    Drax hit with £25m penalty after 'lying' about wood pellets (businessplus.ie)

    When is sustainable not sustainable.

    25 million fine is but a drop in the ocean so long as the subsidies keep coming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes I think most greens, except the german ones obviously, were scratching their heads on that one. To go nuclear or fossil free you need to have the equivalent renewable capacity first

    Sadly nuclear in Ireland is dead. It's minimum 5 years away, assuming planning and construction are timely, good luck getting planning for it though before anything else

    Better for us to harness the near unlimited wind power we have here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The only biomass that ever made sense was sugar cane alcohol in Brazil. Drax burning wood is nothing short of an outright fraud so with this fine I have no idea what was left to lie about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    I recommend you go here

    The graphs back up the 3 points I made

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,207 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I don`t think nuclear here is as dead as some would like to believe. A Think Ireland survey not long ago showed there has been a major change in how people now look on it. Especially the younger generation. I don`t see how planning permission would be more difficult to get than in countries that are using and building nuclear power plants. Especially if those within a certain radius of a plant were given free electricity.

    As we are now, where wind is concerned, is that we have a 2050 plan that nobody can give a cost for, that includes hydrogen because of the intermittent undependable nature of wind that nobody knows if it will work or not, and it would still leave us in 2050 exactly where we are today. Having to rely on fossil fuels to provide 4 GW of generation in 2050.

    It`s not a plan. It`s a green uncosted wish list that like Germany is not going to provide the generation required, reduce the price of electricity, or decrease emissions. All it would achieve is state bankrupcy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,561 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Honestly I'd prefer to believe nuclear isn't dead but our own green party don't want it so what hope to the rest of us have?

    We're probably lucky in that we live in a country where wind is a reliable source of continuous electricity, we really should embrace it instead of always looking for an alternative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 924 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    “reliable source of continuous electricity”

    hahahahahha

    Hahahahahha

    Hahahahha

    🤣

    That’s 6.5GW of installed wind right now, if you had a car that could only drive 5% of advertised range you wouldn’t call that “reliable”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,807 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i cant ever see nuclear being an option here in my lifetime, and im still a couple of years away from 50, we re still a strongly anti-nuclear country, and thats not gonna change anytime soon, theres zero political interest or will, from anyone, so, forget about it, it would only become an option when we start experiencing regular black outs, and by that stage there will be panic stations, and frankly, too bloody late….

    yes we should plough on with renewables as much as possible to try prevent such an outcome, but as it currently looks, thats not looking great!



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