DART+ (DART Expansion)

Ah! So it is, I missed the 3 hour thing for some reason.

To my original question though, I guess there are no actual planned frequencies out there so far then. I'm more interested in off peak increases as currently peak times, while they're poor compared to most cities its still pretty much turn-up-and-go, whereas late evening for example trying to get north of Howth Junction you can be waiting over half an hour sometimes

You won't get detailed frequencies until they actually start planning the schedules closer to the time.

By re-routing the direct DART away from Howth, that will increase frequencies all along the Northern Line to 6 trains per hour to/from Malahide for example.

I was looking at the SW railway order and I noticed that the current plan for the four-track from HH to Heuston is to only electrify the two northern lines? Does this means they plan on changing the current line layout (fast/IC outside and slow/commuter inside?) to the north two being slow lines and the southern two being the fast lines? I think that makes sense if they plan on sending more trains through pheonix park tunnel as well as the Heuston west plans, I just can't find information about the track layout so I am not sure if that's actually what they are planning.

Also if they were to keep the same track layout what would be their plan? permanently(or at least outside the scope of dart+) relying on the BEMU vehicles to run the services?

Yes - the northern pair of tracks will be the "slow lines", and the southern pair the "fast lines".

I don't blame passengers on the Howth line complaining about having to change at Howth Junction. It's a station plagued by anti social behaviour. I wouldn't like to change there for a Howth shuttle in winter when it's dark early. Particularly with Irish Rail's lax attitude to providing security. I used that station a few months ago and there were two guys beating the crap out of each other at 8:30 in the morning!

Also the proposed Dart plus service which replaces current Darts with inter city trains is not good news for existing Dart passengers. I use Raheny and am looking at 4 Darts an hour instead of 6 and the rest of the trains being packed northern line trains. But the 'greater good' blah blah blah.....

Well if the proposed new timetable is 4 Darts a rush hour on the main line (2 from Malahide and 2 from Clongriffen, none fron Howth) instead of the current 6 Darts an hour (3 from Malahide and 3 from Howth) then there are 2 less Darts, but new northern (inevitably packed) commuters instead. So existing Dart services replaced by northern commuter trains.

The fares jump massively at Gormanston, thats a big factor

The change in fare structures coming shortly will change this and the numbers will jump significantly

If the infrastructure is there people will come. A more frequently serviced train station and reasonable fare will attract people.

I go from Connolly to Laytown often to visit friends and €13 return is outrageous. I'll love when they bring the leap card zone to Laytown because it won't cost me money again as I get the tax saver ticket through work.

You're saying commuter trains now ( I can only assume you mean the new DART+ rolling stock) but your last post said Intercity trains, which I can only assume you mean the existing 22000 class Intercity railcar rolling stock. What rolling stock are you referring to as I can't imagine 22000 class railcars being used as regular used on the Northern commuter line as they are totally unsuitable.

Will all these new Darts be 8 carriages. Quite often in the evening going into the city I'm a 4 carriage Dart, so if they all become 8 that will do wonders for capacity.

I have a problem with calling these new DART + trains coming from Drogheda DARTs. Does the D stand for Drogheda now? The DART comes from Malahide or Howth. A 'DART' coming from Drogheda or Lusk or wherever is really a train coming from north county Dublin and in reality will be very busy when stopping at existing DART stops. So I have a problem with less DARTs and more long distance trains.

But like I said above if I'm proved wrong and this new service improves my current commute, I will be happy.

the fare changes are a massive imporvement but aren't they still planning on keeping the short hop/leap card zone ending at balbriggan? It's not the end of the world but I don't think it makes sense to have a DART service without access to leap cards.

we're not going to know if they will be sending full or half lenght trains until the services start, but based on the amount of sets (5 car sets the same length as a 4 car sets) they have being delivered in the next few years I think they should at least have the numbers. But it might also depend on how long they plan on keeping the 8100s running for. If they pull them from service as soon as the first order enters service we probably won't see any difference until the second order enters service(around 2026?). I know there was some talk about extending their life another 10 years, but I don't know what ever happened.

Yes it is definitely a problem, but some problems have to be deprioritised because solving them gets in the way of solving more important problems.

I can certainly understand why you would be annoyed if you could no longer get a seat on the DART from Howth Junction, but I also think no should listen to someone in your position if they were to try to get Irish Rail to change their plans because of it.

ah yeah there was nothing bad that i heard from it, it was orderly alright , but i didnt realise the queues for the station were that big . the last gig i was at in Croker, didnt have to queue outside

Standing for 20 minutes. Annoying for me, a deal breaker for other people.

Howth passengers having to change at Junkie Junction is also a big issue no matter how trivial it appears to most people on here.

I checked the timetable and it seems to be generally 12 minutes from Raheny to Connolly, only a little over half the 20 minute time you suggest. I picked Connolly as a lot of people alight there, especially during busy periods and if you were standing on arrival to Connolly, you'd be almost certain to grab yourself a seat before new passengers board the train.

There are dedicated sitting areas in each carriage for those with a physical impairment. Any misuse of those seats by perfectly abled people who refuse to give up his/her seat to someone who actually needs one (a deal breaker person, that you mention) would be a completely unrelated matter to and should be discussed separately.

Your first point, this is the ideal situation. If I can time a DART from Clongriffen in the mornings that would be ideal. Indeed even two DARTs starting from Clongriffen during a rush hour would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not saying they should not expand northern line capacity just to suit me. But I do think that they can find a balance between increased capacity while also not downgrading the existing DART service.

I think that if the existing service was to be downgraded then people have a right to be heard even if we are not part of the 'greater good'. It's been mainly a great service for 40 years. My dad worked in Irish Rail and was privileged to be part of the initial roll out of DARTs.

But you will "probably" have a seat about 12 minutes after leaving Raheny, as you arrive at Connolly.

is it worth mentioning that per the station stats for last years census more people got on the train at Docklands than did at Howth. Same with Sutton and Bayside

As pointed out, you will get a seat at Connolly, thanks to the numbers getting off the train.

A service you still have the privilege of using. Plenty of people around the country are stuck with low frequency bus routes, you're getting an increased frequency Dart and still complaining.