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Energy infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭gjim


    You’re just being a pedantic nit. I bet you don’t use the “broader definition” of car when discussing motorways. I haven’t been following the earlier argument but can probably assume you were losing if all that remains of your point is that the word “grid” has broader meaning outside of the one commonly used when discussing electricity distribution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    This is a thread about energy infrastructure, no?

    All I did was point out that the electrical system every home, business and generator is connected to does not end at our borders anymore. Whether it's distribution grid, transmission grid or super grid, matters not one jot. We're part of the European grid unless our interconnectors are on outage.

    Discussing a car and motorways is not a similar analogy. In the same way that a generator and circuits are not the same thing. A motorway and dual carriageway being part of the road network would be closer.

    But I suppose it distracts from acknowledging the inaccuracies in your post about HVDC capabilities and inertia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Even if there are financial costs associated with moving to renewables and the technologies required to integrate them into a synchronous grid….we simply can't keep pumping out CO2 instead. That is not an option for future generations. The fossil fuel burning does not come at zero cost.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭gjim


    All I did was point out that the electrical system every home, business and generator is connected to does not end at our borders anymore.

    No, that's not at all what you did - if you had, who would have disagreed? You corrected someone's use of the term grid with a bunch of waffle about the term not meaning a synchronous grid.

    I've no idea what points regarding energy infrastructure you are trying to make - maybe they're interesting? But I don't know since you seem more concerned with a futile attempt to redefine what is understood by the word "grid" in order to earn an interweb win in your mind.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Future fossil fuel costs will have to include increasingly expensive carbon credits and/or carbon sequestration etc.

    Done properly they should include extraction emissions as things like tarsands are horribly inefficient.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    1300MW Codling offshore windfarm expected to submit a planning application next week- the first of the 4 ORESS projects to reach this stage.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0829/1467191-codling-wind-park-application-to-be-submitted-next-week/

    A couple of solar projects have also been given go ahead over past month. 60MW/115ac solar farm near Clonmel - ABP rejected appeal

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/tipperary/news/an-bord-pleanala-gives-green-light-in-tipperary-for-solar-farm-development-near-clonmel/a81405400.html

    210MW/600ac Delamain Solar Farm in Kildare - again ABP rejected appeals.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0828/1467176-green-light-for-600-acre-solar-farm-in-co-kildare/

    Tipp CoCo approves plans for 74MW/85ha solar farm near Nenagh

    https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2024/08/30/green-light-for-solar-farm-2/

    Some nice stats from Irish Energy Bot on solar generation:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Should a level of battery storage be included with solar schemes ? To reduce peaks and troughs in production ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Yet another "could be a game changer"

    Instead of storing hydrogen you use it to covert iron ore into iron powder. Later on you can react steam with the iron to produce hydrogen.

    Each 1,400 litre reactor had 2–3 metric tons of iron ore and can store 10 MWh of hydrogen which could generate 4-6MWh of electricity. 40% efficiency but lots of heat as a by product and iron ore is cheap.

    https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2024/se/d3se01228j



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    40 % round trip efficiency isn't the worst as there's no loss with time , and the materials themselves are cheap ,and already out there in bulk , I assume a lot of the energy losses are from 1, making hydrogen in the first place , - which all hydrogen systems depend on , and 2 the heat losses ,

    so if combined with huge heat batteries there's every chance that the efficiency could be improved, and obviously improved hydrogen electrolyis would make a big difference,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Actually, the bit I don't get is why bother with the hydrogen method to make the iron in the first place , ?

    You could make iron anywhere ,say in the pilbarra in Australia,because the mines ,railways ,ports ,are already there , or china because they already have iron plants , turn it from ore into iron by any efficient method, ,, ship the iron really really cheaply to wherever you need energy - say Europe , and convert it back to iron oxide releasing the hydrogen ,( + heat ?) to make electricity , then ship the iron oxide back to wherever it could be reconverted to iron cheapest , probably using the same ships and ports ,

    Effectively it'd be an iron and iron oxide economy , not necessarily à green energy economy,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭fael


    Lol at Fig 6 in the research paper, where they've tried to grill sausages during the explosion hazard test... Haha

    Failed attempt to grill sausages on the glowing iron (optical and IR images) after 5 and 15 min, showed less hot gas evolution than a classical charcoal grill of similar size

    Thanks for sharing the interesting article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Not our infrastructure, but last year's auction disaster is often referenced on this thread.

    In the most recent auction 10GW of capacity was agreed for various projects, although according to the article, the UK will need double that to hit their 2030 targets.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/sep/03/renewable-energy-auction-windfarms-tidal-power



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There were two auction disasters, the first being in the Uk with no one placing a bid while the second one was here where the auction result was for double the cost of the last succesful auction in the Uk.

    Anyone else fed up with the BS metric of 'homes'? Firstly it's a stupid metric and secondly it's a deliberate lie as it usually references the nameplate capacity of the renewable source instead of it's capacity factor adjusted real output, so for solar it might be 'enough to supply 10,000 homes' when really it's 1,100.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    The average electricity usage for Irish homes is 4500 kWh. Armed with that figure, you can go and find out if your “usually” claim is true or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I think Ireland has something like 32% of nameplate productivity, maybe slightly more

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,811 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    We need fossil fuels for the foreseeable, until grid scale storage for extended periods of time becomes a thing.
    Maybe that’s green hydrogen, maybe it’s not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Source? Wind is 28.3% and solar is 11%. So the average would be less than 28%



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭josip


    2 GWh of capacity coming down the tracks.

    The average solar strike price was 15% more than wind.

    Almost all wind proposals were accepted, but 500MWh of solar was unsuccessful for reasons unknown.

    https://cms.eirgrid.ie/sites/default/files/publications/RESS_4_Provisional_Auction_Results_%28R4PAR%29.pdf

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0909/1469229-state-completes-latest-renewable-energy-auction/

    Also 40% of electricity in August came from renewables.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0909/1469084-wind-energy-ireland-report/

    Post edited by josip on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Haven't seen this in Irish media, but good progress on Greenlink with cable installation ahead of schedule.

    Cable manufacturer and installer Sumitomo Electric Industries has announced the successful completion of its part in the Greenlink Interconnector project.

    Sumitomo provided high-voltage direct current (HVDC) cross-linked polyethylene (XLPE) cables for submarine and underground electricity interconnection and fibre optic cables for Greenlink.

    All testing and commissioning has been undertaken by Sumitomo which has handed over the cable system to consortium partner Siemens Energy—the consortium was awarded the EPC contract in September 2021—and trial operations will begin in the next few months.

    https://www.current-news.co.uk/greenlink-interconnector-project-cabling-completed/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The UK grid says goodbye to coal today.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/30/end-of-an-era-as-britains-last-coal-fired-power-plant-shuts-down



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,086 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    Anyone know whats the long term plan for Moneypoint? It had an upgrade a few years ago so must be hanging around for years to come?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Was it not planned as a hub for off-shore wind - or did I get that wrong?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Astonishing stat from that article: Coal power made up 80% of the UK’s electricity in the early 1980s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Is it going to burn heavy fuel oil in the interim if needed? I think it's due to finish up as coal-fired next year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Shannon LNG Terminal to go back to ABP after High Court finds refusal was invalid.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2024/0930/1472782-kerry-shannon-lng/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,236 ✭✭✭gjim


    There's a daft plan to convert Moneypoint to heavy fuel oil, largely driven by energy security concerns: https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0222/1433875-moneypoint-conversion-to-oil-needed-to-lower-outages-risk/

    And yes there is a need for some last resort source of electricity because once the Corrib runs out, the island is only two technical faults (or sabotage) with our subsea gas interconnectors to the UK, from having a full blown energy crisis - the sort requiring potentially months of serious rationing to prevent vital state services like hospitals and police from shutting down.

    This is why I'm pleased the high-court overturned ABP's illogical decision to block the LNG facility at Tarbert. This facility will (hopefully if built) provide about 2 months back-up energy in the form of LNG storage. Meaning forgetting about filthy and expensive HFO as a back-up for our gas connections to the UK.

    My hope longer term is that battery tech or something like will advance where it becomes economically viable to store large amounts of electricity for months or years and that we can completely ditch NG. But we don't and at the moment NG is easily the best of a bad lot and necessary to de-risk the march to 90%+ renewables.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    How much would it cost p/a to keep money point on the system, as emergency cover , I know it takes a couple of days to bring up to power from cold ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Didn't they build a synchroniser in Moneypoint? How would that work if Moneypoint stopped generating?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The synchoniser doesn't require generation on site, and it wouldn't have been fed from the coal generation anyway, as coal is very much a steady-state source.

    The synchronous condenser is basically an enormous flywheel for the grid: fluctuating amounts of wind energy go in, steady, if slightly lower, levels of power come out.



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