N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

marno21 · 05-05-2016 4:01pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Is there any information on the Capital Cost of this scheme?

Last estimate was €100m.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/100m-dunkettle-interchange-project-given-green-light-231374.html

marno21 · 05-07-2016 1:26am

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2016-06-29a.223

Recent select committee, spokesman for DTTAS Dominic Mullaney says that Dunkettle will start in 2018/19 followed after that by the M28 scheme.

marno21 · 05-07-2016 11:49pm

Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.

grogi · 06-07-2016 8:51am

marno21 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.

DOes this answer you question?

spacetweek · 06-07-2016 12:41pm

marno21 wrote: »

Does anyone know if there's a plan under this scheme to bridge the old N25 under the M8 to provide an alternative route for designation of the N25 to motorway? Such silliness not bridging it back in the day.

I'm pretty sure all movements will be separated. A start date of "2018/2019" means late 2018 so another 2 1/2 years before construction.

Chris_5339762 · 06-07-2016 4:33pm

Also, AFAIK there are no plans to designate the N25 as M25, much as we'd like to see it for 'blue line' reasons.

marno21 · 07-07-2016 12:35am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Also, AFAIK there are no plans to designate the N25 as M25, much as we'd like to see it for 'blue line' reasons.

I have an actual reason for seeing it as M25, nothing to do with blue lines.

When I drive from Dunkettle to Little Island at 120km/h, I don't want to be driving a few feet away from a cyclist. That's just dangerous. A road that's suitable for 120km/h, and designated as so, same with the Ballincollig BP, should have motorway restrictions applied. If the Ennis BP, M7 Castletown-Nenagh & M8 Glanmire BP are good enough for motorway restrictions then so should the N25.
tm

Also, the "old N25" I'm talking about is the single carriageway N25 replaced in the 1990s, it no longer exists from the N8/R639 Dunkettle R/A to the LILO for Little Island just east of the Dunkettle Interchange, it would make an ideal alternative route for the M25.

hans aus dtschl · 07-07-2016 10:26am

marno21 wrote: »

I have an actual reason for seeing it as M25, nothing to do with blue lines.

When I drive from Dunkettle to Little Island at 120km/h, I don't want to be driving a few feet away from a cyclist. That's just dangerous. A road that's suitable for 120km/h, and designated as so, same with the Ballincollig BP, should have motorway restrictions applied. If the Ennis BP, M7 Castletown-Nenagh & M8 Glanmire BP are good enough for motorway restrictions then so should the N25.
tm

I don't massively disagree with you, but I can tell you as someone who cycles this route regularly that it's the best option because of a lack of alternative routes. The stretch of "old" N25, or whatever we should call it, through Glounthaune and as far as Carrigtwohill is good quality.

Carrigtwohill-Midleton does not have a suitable secondary road in its current state. Hence no "R" number, presumably.
The M8 has the good-quality R639 parallel to it, the Ennis M18 has the R458.

You mention cyclists, but to be honest a bigger problem might well be "N" or "L" plate drivers, who also aren't allowed on motorways. But it's fine to not want to drive near a cyclist lol.

marno21 · 07-07-2016 6:08pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't massively disagree with you, but I can tell you as someone who cycles this route regularly that it's the best option because of a lack of alternative routes. The stretch of "old" N25, or whatever we should call it, through Glounthaune and as far as Carrigtwohill is good quality.

Carrigtwohill-Midleton does not have a suitable secondary road in its current state. Hence no "R" number, presumably.
The M8 has the good-quality R639 parallel to it, the Ennis M18 has the R458.

You mention cyclists, but to be honest a bigger problem might well be "N" or "L" plate drivers, who also aren't allowed on motorways. But it's fine to not want to drive near a cyclist lol.

The N25 from Dunkettle to east of Carrigtwohill was built offline (East Cork Parkway) in the 1990s, it has a 120km/h limit and an alternative route for much of its length. East of there is low quality DC to the R630 roundabout, with LILOs, property access & median crossings. A plan to grade seperate this section and build a parallel alternative route was to begin a few years ago but has since been suspended.

These dual carraigeways may be safer than the old route but they are still no place for cyclists.

Chris_5339762 · 07-07-2016 7:39pm

Carrigtwohill - Midleton was dualled years ago by slapping a second carriageway down next to the one that was there. Shame the upgrade got canned.

The Midleton bypass never gets enough credit.... such a forward thinking bit of road when it was built (DC, low quality now, but staggeringly high quality in the 80s when it was built).

hans aus dtschl · 08-07-2016 8:22am

marno21 wrote: »

The N25 from Dunkettle to east of Carrigtwohill was built offline (East Cork Parkway) in the 1990s, it has a 120km/h limit and an alternative route for much of its length. East of there is low quality DC to the R630 roundabout, with LILOs, property access & median crossings. A plan to grade seperate this section and build a parallel alternative route was to begin a few years ago but has since been suspended.

These dual carraigeways may be safer than the old route but they are still no place for cyclists.

But there's actually no road from the Tivoli side of Dunkettle, marno. Sending the traffic through Glanmire is a no-go as it's already heavily congested. North Esk to Carrigtohill is 120kmh, because that's the only bit that a secondary route exists for.

I'm speaking as both a cyclist and a motorist, if you're going from City to Carrigtwohill then the N25 is probably equally safe for cyclists as negotiating the narrow congested roads between Dunkettle House and Glanmire village (L2999). On one you have faster traffic but a wide margin and clear sightlines, on the other you have narrow corners, no margin and mostly 80kmh traffic. It is now signed as 50kmh, but it's not a safe road. Most L and N drivers will go N25, indeed I know of L drivers who avoid the L2999.

namloc1980 · 11-07-2016 11:43pm

Irish Examiner tomorrow saying work will start in 2019/20.

marno21 · 12-07-2016 12:21am

This is almost ready to go.

Or would be ready to start tomorrow if they had got off their arses when the Capital Plan was announced and got all the pre-work done.

2019 is a joke. This and the N28 dualling are needed for the Port of Cork expansion to go ahead, and now the roads to it won't be complete until 2023 or 2024.

Is there any functioning brain cells at all??

tails_naf · 05-08-2016 10:22pm

I just saw the proposal and it appears traffic from Dublin going into the city will have to go towards midelton first, through and overpass and then back towards the city. This seems like madness to me. This overpass for the business Park is already jammed up, forcing every city centre bound car from the m8 to use it surely makes little sense. Is this really the final plan?

KCAccidental · 05-08-2016 10:35pm

tails_naf wrote: »

I just saw the proposal and it appears traffic from Dublin going into the city will have to go towards midelton first, through and overpass and then back towards the city. This seems like madness to me. This overpass for the business Park is already jammed up, forcing every city centre bound car from the m8 to use it surely makes little sense. Is this really the final plan?

Vast Majority of vehicles will use the South Ring, also I think this design is looking to the future of the North Ring road and Port of Cork being moved to Ringaskiddy.

tails_naf · 05-08-2016 10:41pm

KCAccidental wrote: »

Vast Majority of vehicles will use the South Ring, also I think this design is looking to the future of the North Ring road and Port of Cork being moved to Ringaskiddy.

Yes of course the majority will, but my point is its junction at the business Park is already an issue at rush hour. Putting any more traffic through it is surely not ideal. Getting it 90% right for 100 million is a bit of a shame.

AugustusMinimus · 06-08-2016 12:31pm

So many movements will be handled automatically. I doubt there will be much traffic on this one alone.

What is probably need though is a third junction for Little Island at the end where the KFC sign is.

marno21 · 14-09-2016 12:03am

Now that everyone's back and everyone's favourite roads are jammed again, it's no surprise these are still a major issue in the local media.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/ibec-calls-major-cork-road-projects-get-underway/2526413/

pigtown · 26-09-2016 6:20pm

It took me 45 minutes to get through here this morning. I wonder is there anything that could be done in the meantime? Would a P & R from the northside be any relief?

Truckermal · 26-09-2016 7:00pm

pigtown wrote: »

It took me 45 minutes to get through here this morning. I wonder is there anything that could be done in the meantime? Would a P & R from the northside be any relief?

Were you coming from Dublin? I went through about 7.30 and it was backed away up the hill at that time...:rolleyes:

pigtown · 26-09-2016 9:16pm

Got to the roundabout queue at 7.45 and reached the tunnel at 8.30. It's rdiculous

marno21 · 26-09-2016 11:56pm

M50 got freeflow on all its junctions when it was at 100k vehicles per day

N40 is at 100k per day and its fighting hard for freeflow on the busiest junction (>90k vehicles per day)

It is generally not understood how bad traffic is in Cork.

Bring on MM and (M25, M22, M71 - a man can wish).

annfield1978 · 18-10-2016 5:20pm

Jacobs due to be awarded consultancy services through the tender and construction stage for this project

Carawaystick · 18-10-2016 11:05pm

It's incredible there aren't freeflow left slips at this junction. Especially on the north side of the junction

hans aus dtschl · 19-10-2016 8:12am

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's incredible there aren't freeflow left slips at this junction. Especially on the north side of the junction

I think the Ibis slip road and the North Esk depot slip road block a proper north side slip. They're quite close.

South side, I think the existing city-bound lane going from 2 to 1 might be the problem: it'd be hard to go from 3 to 1 in the same space.

But in general, agreed, it seems a major oversight of the original plan: I suspect you could reduce a nice few % of vehicles from the queue.

AugustusMinimus · 19-10-2016 10:12am

Carawaystick wrote: »

It's incredible there aren't freeflow left slips at this junction. Especially on the north side of the junction

There was a plan 10 years ago when the lights got put in to also add a number of slips. Never happened.

Chris_5339762 · 19-10-2016 4:35pm

There was also another plan to put a left slip from Cork to Dublin but these plans took over and building that slip would have just made a mess of the planning for the whole scheme.

spacetweek · 19-10-2016 5:02pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There was a plan 10 years ago when the lights got put in to also add a number of slips. Never happened.

No point now.

Truckermal · 19-10-2016 5:13pm

I see people using the H/S in the morning to head for little island but the cops are there most mornings giving out tickets for it...:rolleyes:

Pity they wouldn't stop the traffic from blocking the roundabout so the Dublin traffic could keep flowing.

AugustusMinimus · 19-10-2016 5:27pm

Truckermal wrote: »

I see people using the H/S in the morning to head for little island but the cops are there most mornings giving out tickets for it...:rolleyes:

Pity they wouldn't stop the traffic from blocking the roundabout so the Dublin traffic could keep flowing.

I find that Gardai are usually clamping down on things that while illegal, improve traffic flow. Crawling along hard shoulders being one thing.

I wouldn't mind if they instead focused on queue jumping at various roundabouts which is downright dangerous.

spacetweek · 20-10-2016 7:42pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I find that Gardai are usually clamping down on things that while illegal, improve traffic flow. Crawling along hard shoulders being one thing.

Bit ludicrous you have to admit.
Driving in hard shoulders is highly problematic - what if there's an emergency, the responders can't get through.

Delira · 20-10-2016 10:41pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Bit ludicrous you have to admit.
Driving in hard shoulders is highly problematic - what if there's an emergency, the responders can't get through.

Agree 100%

However the drivers that I see in the Little Island lane jumping the queue by forcing themselves into the tunnel lane at the last minute on the roundabout every morning are a huge problem also. I wish the guards would spend a few mornings up there catching these dangerous drivers as well as at the hard shoulder of the Dublin road approach.

marno21 · 30-11-2016 9:38pm

I don't use the N40 at peak times that much (I try to avoid it), but today there was a longer queue for the Douglas flyover than there was for the Dunkettle interchange. The queue for Dunkettle was also moving whilst the Douglas queue was at a halt. The Dunkettle upgrade and the removal of the Carrs Hill bottleneck with the N28 is going to put SERIOUS pressure on the Douglas flyover westbound because there are no exits between J9 and J6 westbound. There is an onramp at J7 but there's a lane gain to compensate for that.

It didn't help that there was atriocious driving too such as a black car with no lights on weaving in and out of traffic between J6 and J9 in pitch dark. Reckless.

AugustusMinimus · 30-11-2016 9:44pm

marno21 wrote: »

I don't use the N40 at peak times that much (I try to avoid it), but today there was a longer queue for the Douglas flyover than there was for the Dunkettle interchange. The queue for Dunkettle was also moving whilst the Douglas queue was at a halt. The Dunkettle upgrade and the removal of the Carrs Hill bottleneck with the N28 is going to put SERIOUS pressure on the Douglas flyover westbound because there are no exits between J9 and J6 westbound. There is an onramp at J7 but there's a lane gain to compensate for that.

It didn't help that there was atriocious driving too such as a black car with no lights on weaving in and out of traffic between J6 and J9 in pitch dark. Reckless.

Been saying this for upwards of 2 years.

Douglas flyover will have to be widened to 3 lanes. Dunkettle and M28 will require it.

If not, the traffic will be back up through the tunnel itself.

Geogregor · 01-12-2016 1:31pm

So what is the latest with the Dunkettle upgrade? Any time frame? Is the tender out?

marno21 · 01-12-2016 3:13pm

Geogregor wrote: »

So what is the latest with the Dunkettle upgrade? Any time frame? Is the tender out?

Early 2019 start is the latest indication we have.

Idbatterim · 01-12-2016 3:37pm

without going through 30 pages? Ill ask a simple question, are the plans for the freeflow adequate? i.e. not the joke that some of the new junctions on the m50 are capacity wise, i.e. not even up to those volumes from day 1 of opening?

marno21 · 01-12-2016 3:40pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

without going through 30 pages? Ill ask a simple question, are the plans for the freeflow adequate? i.e. not the joke that some of the new junctions on the m50 are capacity wise, i.e. not even up to those volumes from day 1 of opening?

Which junctions on the M50 are you on about?

Idbatterim · 01-12-2016 3:46pm

ballymount and tallaght for a start not as familiar with the other ones except the n7 and n4 which are ok, at least they are free flow... getting onto the m50 is an absolute joke coming from the tallaght road, there should be a dedicated freeflow slip road onto m50 southbound at least, also the right turn onto m50 northbound, needs to be two lanes... ideally the should put in a free flow...

marno21 · 01-12-2016 4:01pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

ballymount and tallaght for a start not as familiar with the other ones except the n7 and n4 which are ok, at least they are free flow... getting onto the m50 is an absolute joke coming from the tallaght road, there should be a dedicated freeflow slip road onto m50 southbound at least, also the right turn onto m50 northbound, needs to be two lanes... ideally the should put in a free flow...

The Ballymount junction is a mess because it's too close to the Red Cow junction. The weaving there is a joke especially considering how busy the Red Cow junction is. There should've been some sort of collector/distributor setup put in there during the upgrade.

Chris_5339762 · 01-12-2016 9:24pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

without going through 30 pages? Ill ask a simple question, are the plans for the freeflow adequate? i.e. not the joke that some of the new junctions on the m50 are capacity wise, i.e. not even up to those volumes from day 1 of opening?

It'll be fine apart from the N8 Dublin Road - N8 Cork, which is a joke. They are deliberately trying to push THAT traffic through the tunnel and into Cork from the South.

The freeflows will be fine, the main issue in the future will be Douglas Flyover and the tunnel itself. You can more easily build a new parallel Douglas Flyover than you can double the capacity of the Lee Tunnel.

marno21 · 01-12-2016 10:14pm

Long term more traffic needs to be diverted around the future North Ring. Plenty of traffic has no business on the South Ring

AugustusMinimus · 01-12-2016 10:41pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It'll be fine apart from the N8 Dublin Road - N8 Cork, which is a joke. They are deliberately trying to push THAT traffic through the tunnel and into Cork from the South.

The freeflows will be fine, the main issue in the future will be Douglas Flyover and the tunnel itself. You can more easily build a new parallel Douglas Flyover than you can double the capacity of the Lee Tunnel.

Douglas flyover is much more pressing as it handles additional traffic from the Link Road and the N27.

Think the junction will be fine. One major movement isn't free flow. However it will have priority at every single roundabout.

annfield1978 · 04-12-2016 9:53pm

Geogregor wrote: »

So what is the latest with the Dunkettle upgrade? Any time frame? Is the tender out?

Jacobs appointed with a very low price to complete the specimen design and complete the tender action evaluation & award process of the D&B Contract

Scheme to be design in accordance with BIM standards so will be interested to see how it turns out

Carawaystick · 05-12-2016 4:11pm

marno21 wrote: »

The Ballymount junction is a mess because it's too close to the Red Cow junction. The weaving there is a joke especially considering how busy the Red Cow junction is. There should've been some sort of collector/distributor setup put in there during the upgrade.

The Ballymount exit issue is the road capacity away from the junction is not enough.
The Ballymount entrance onto the M50N is less of an issue as the red cow onramp merges delay traffic, if the red cow on slips to the M50N all put cars in the Aux lane, traffic would be freer flowing, instead of the short merge from the R110 under the junction and the subsequent short merge from the N7, beside the Aux onslip.

Geogregor · 05-12-2016 6:07pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Geogregor wrote: »

So what is the latest with the Dunkettle upgrade? Any time frame? Is the tender out?

Jacobs appointed with a very low price to complete the specimen design and complete the tender action evaluation & award process of the D&B Contract

Scheme to be design in accordance with BIM standards so will be interested to see how it turns out

So, when could we expect the tender? Spring next year? Later?

annfield1978 · 05-12-2016 10:34pm

I would say Contractor tender documents would be issued middle of next year with a pre qual probably March/ April time. There is no money with the dept of transport = no rush

annfield1978 · 07-12-2016 7:55am

Contractor PIN Notice to discuss BIM Implementation, sensible pricing issued, Traffic Manaement etc on ETenders

marno21 · 07-12-2016 5:53pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Contractor PIN Notice to discuss BIM Implementation, sensible pricing issued, Traffic Manaement etc on ETenders

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=105948&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender attached above

marno21 · 08-12-2016 9:18pm

Echo article on the Dunkettle upgrade. Start is a shade over 2 years away now.

N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

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