French man accused of drugging his wife and inviting men to rape her

I don't know what to say to this, like I don't have any insight into the mind of a sexual assaulter or rapist, because I'm not one. I don't know how they think, or operate or what they do in their spare time or how to identify them, no more than I know anything about a person who embezzles money from a company, I don't engage in that behaviour either.

It's a bit strange to expect me, simply because I'm a man, to have answers or insight into a subject like sexual assault or rape, simply because I'm a man. Do you not see how that is sort of offensive? Because I'm a man, I must have insight into other men who rape women? Really? Is this your logic?

could you point out any posts getting offended on behalf of these rapists?

and what specifically is the call for more increased action in this case: The site where these rapists organized is shut down and its owner prosecuted, a wider investigation has happened across Europe, and there is more public awareness raised for gynecologists to spot signs of serial sexual abuse.

This thread wasn’t a call for that increased action though the OP started it beckoning men to respond to it especially, implying that men of all stripes bore responsibility for the behavior of these rapists, which is fallacious and bad faith. We don’t see threads started about mass shootings spun as “hey readers, why are you all such mental basket cases? Get your house in order”

Stop attacking me and assuming things about me, I'm here in good faith trying to understand what exactly you are looking for.

I certainly acknowledge the concept of boy racers, just as I acknowledge the concept of rapists (concept, that's a weird way to describe it but whatever). I own a car, I drive at fast speeds on the motorway, I am not, however a boy racer, nor understand what compels a person to become one or partake in that activity. I simply do not understand it, I do not comprehend the need to engage in such activities. It's extremely strange to me that some people (boys? men?) enjoy and seek out this activity. I can offer no insight into it.

I'm not dismissing that rapists exist, but I am dismissing your erroneous notion that men have insight into rapists simply because they are men. This is a wild assumption.

Oh, you're one of them.

Wow.

One problem with the drink driving analogy is there's a simple test for drink driving. It's interesting as well that the law on random drink driving checks is quite particular about keeping subjectivity out of it. Guards can't just set up a checkpoint outside the house of a known drinker. Safeguards like that protect people from the feeling of being "targeted".

Sexual violence is a more complex problem. It's also muti-faceted. While I take the point that more education around consent could help to create better kinds of relations between young men and young women, it's not going to help prevent a case like this one, in the slightest. It's probably not going to help cases where young male perpetrators had previously completely fallen out of the education system for one reason or another.

It's like the crime of murder. You can argue that reducing social inequality, child poverty etc will reduce the causes of some crime that leads to murder. But, it won't have any impact on cases like say Graham O'Dwyer's, where the cause was some much more deep-seated mental deficiency, which can hardly be blamed on the education system, and let's face it is much more likely to be associated with men than women. This case is more comparable to that one, than your average murder would be.

That said, I despair a bit when I see men saying women grabbing a man's crotch is somehow comparable to male sexual assault on women. Or that a woman raping a man is comparable to the other way round. But, they aren't the same. The asymmetric strength relationship between men and women is what defines the way they both see the issue. A man whose crotch is grabbed by a woman can choose to be offended, or to be flattered. Either way, he knows he isn't under any real threat.

I find this story too disturbing. It will take me a while to process.

I didn't even use the word ordinary in my post. You keep putting that word in quotation marks so I don't know if you're mistaking me for someone else, because you're not quoting anything I said.

But to your second paragraph (and as I said in my first post) deviants are spread all through society. The stupid ones are more likely to be caught. The clever ones are better at blending in and less likely to be caught. But clever people and stupid people are probably equally likely/unlikely to be deviants

Oh dear, the double standard brigade has turned up.

Still waiting on the evidence that the 70 men were all locals……ho hum

Unfortunately for the victim she will have to relive it all in court as the trove of evidence is played for the judge and the jury. Truly wrenching to think about.

I think it determines how men and women see the issue, is what I said. It took me a while to appreciate this, but a lot of this stuff around "it could be any man" relates to the fact that women have to constantly make that kind of assessment, when men don't.

Is there? Where?

Sure. That said the rationality is usually given inverse sense of severity, approaching the situation as eg. most men can be rapists (tens of millions of people in a society, about 1 in every 2 humans you meet) vs. most rapists tend to be men (a <<1% cohort per 100k)

Yep … Another Man hating thread…

Slán ….

The title was provocative but it would be actually interesting if men could give their honest opinion on this matter.

Except that is not what is being asked, or inferred.

As a man, my honest opinion on this is that it's a disgusting thing that happened, and the perpetrators should go to jail for a very long time. There, is that an honest enough opinion? What other sort of opinion do you expect the men in this thread to hold about this incident? Ah shur it's grand, it was only a bit of rape among friends. No, nobody is going to say that or anything resembling it. Nobody has minimised it, nobody made excuses for these pieces of human dirt - but the inference that men on this thread, simply by the act of being men, can offer any additional insight into the minds of rapists is very weird.

Well, that was my question, could they offer an insight?. I worked in a pub for years. I saw how differently groups of guys acted while together and how different those same guys acted while their girlfriends/wives were with them. And this is in a local were everyone knew everyone. How differently again would that group act while abroad on a stag with know one but themselves to know?

I'm not inferring that men know their mate deep down is a psychopathic rapist but I wonder how may men see their friends do things that show their disregard of women that they don't call out. There are clearly cultural factors that influence rates of sexual assaults. Rape has been historically been shown to increase during times of war. There are also vastly different rates of rape between India and Ireland for instance, and I would find it hard to believe that the patriarchal culture in India vs Ireland isn't a large part of that. There will always be psychopaths who would do disturbing things no matter what, but there must be a percentage of men who would rape/sexually assault if conditions meant they weren't likely to be caught or judged to account for increases in rape during wartime conditions.

What a crappy headline from the Telegraph.

Nice thought, but it’ll change nothing. People that do things like this have it in them. A few classes or ads won’t change that.

Is a wife-beater gonna see a domestic violence ad on the telly and think “Gee, I never realised what I was doing was wrong, I better apologise and change my ways”??