Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

Yeah my posts should have "humanity".

Whether it's money or populace or fear of being labeled racist or fear of losing out on career progression in the Dail or Brussels.

I don't believe the majority of politicians believe or agree with what they're spouting.

But sure when have they ever.

Five years and "fully integrated" but still living in a center and subject to being moved around.

Is that really what people consider fully integrated? Why aren't they paying rent like the rest of us. How many years does it actually take? 15?

But why are they in a centre for 5 years I think is the point that’s being made

So that's it? The simplistic "stroke of the pen" whereby you simply treat asylum seekers like contraband cigarettes and — whoosh — major progress?

The problem here of course is that you are pretending that the moral distinction between cigarettes/cattle and people is a "Helen Lovejoy" lefty whine — and even if you do sincerely believe that, which I doubt — a stroke of a pen to remove the moral distinction still doesn't solve the practical differences in how you handle these things. Cigarettes are not biological sentient beings, they don't breathe and starve and can be stored anywhere quite uncontroversially, and of course destroyed. Cattle are animals we raise to harvest and slaughter — when crises like Foot & Mouth occurred, we systematically killed many of them and burned their carcasses as a method of combating the crisis.

The practices involved in the seizure of cigarettes, cattle or cocaine are simply not anywhere close to the complexities (practical and moral) of dealing with human beings, regardless of how much you believe that such moral and practical complexities can simply be erased by "a stroke of the pen".

"The government, NGO's , asylum seekers and even the lefties on here have admitted that the majority are not genuine."

I'm not aware that our government, or any NGOs, or any 'lefties' on here have admitted the majority are not genuine. I think you're another poster confusing somebody not meeting the criteria, for not being genuine.

As I understand the process the criteria for determining who is eligible for refugee status are actually quite complex and subject to ongoing change.

You'll see here the information the uk uses for determining asylum status for Nigeria alone. There are several hundred pages of documentation for one country alone.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nigeria-country-policy-and-information-notes

This is your claim, that: "The government, NGO's , asylum seekers and even the lefties on here have admitted that the majority are not genuine."

If you have something to support this claim feel free to share it.

I'm making the point, as I have done several times here, that none of us are aware how many asylum claim are 'genuine' or not. The only information I can see available is showing how many are adjudicated to have met the criteria, itself not truly an indication of a claim being genuine.

Yes these are UK country reports, used to aid in deciding asylum cases. I've seen similar published for other European countries. Perhaps Ireland uses a some way different approach but I can't see how a decision would be anyway reliable if the adjudicating officers weren't informed on the political, social and military conditions of the country a person is fleeing. Again feel free to provide further information on this if you have it.

It's not remotely clear what you're actually proposing we introduce 'at the stroke of a pen'?

Are you saying we should not allow IPAs full stop, and renege from the Geneva Convention? At a guess I'd say it would be technically possible but the consequences would be massive. Even actual far-right governments like Orban's don't do that, officially they just fail everybody's application and try to deport them.

'' The government is not considering two pay rates. The government wants to raise the minimum pay that a permit worker must earn. This means local workers can't be replaced by cheaper labour from outside the EU. ''

I am trying to get my head around this gaslighting responce to the link below. .

Well if the rates were the same the labour from outside the EU would not be cheaper !! There are 2 rates 13 per hour for EU and Irish , 15 per hour for non EU . The only reason for the change is to facilitate family reunification for non EU which will add to the numbers coming . I wonder how one would feel working for less than a new arrival .

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/2024/09/02/increased-pay-rates-for-work-permit-holders-could-lead-to-inequality-and-racial-tensions-minister-told/#:~:text=In%20the%20end%2C%20the%20increases,permits%20went%20ahead%20as%20planned&text=Inequality%20and%20increased%20racial%20tensions,the%20start%20of%20this%20year.

So your logic is it should be legal to enter by any means and this will work as a deterrant .

Yeah better to have the country in rag order through unnatural engineered population growth.

I'm not proposing any deterrent measures. It doesn't look to me that they've worked elsewhere, at least in a way we could consider here.

Oh,I see what's going on here..

How exactly are you making the association between IPAs in Borrisokane, and IPAs in general being a drain on state accommodation and social welfare?

I've had a look on daft.ie and there's currently only one property available for rent in the area.

Have you anything at all to support this, or is it just more of the same tiresome and predictable IPA bashing?

How come its always the people who are against our current immigration policy have to back up their claims? Yet when the NGOs like the Refugee council of Ireland and other bleeding hearts make statements they are allowed to go unchallenged. When they are challenged they scream racism and xenophobia. The same with a lot of posters on here who have their heads buried in the sand.

I have serious concerns over our capacity to help genuine refugees and migrants when we simply cannot house our own. I have concerns about any refugee or foreigner entering our country without any background checks whatsoever being carried out. I'm not racist however. I am a realist. There are serious criminals who have entered our borders due to the government and EU policy of accepting anyone and everyone and we have no way of tracking them. That is true. I'm not racist.

Immigrant families in Borrisokane given a reprieve by the Minister, the system works…After a phone call from the Labour party's Spokesperson on Agriculture Food and the Marine, Committee on Public Accounts Alan Kelly too I'm sure....

And with the 100 or so locals in the town who protested in support of them, will raise funds or open their own spare rooms for the immigrants…

https://www.thejournal.ie/borrisokane-ipas-6480145-Sep2024/

You mean people emigrate during recessions?

Or people stop immigrating during recessions?

Or both? I'd say both. But I'm still struggling to understand your point.

We have too little infrastructure for current population. Be it health, housing or transport. Your solution is build more of this to meet demand from external population increase.

I'd agree with build more of this infrastructure but also decrease external population growth. That way you attack from both ends amd solve your problem quicker.

And please spare your fingers the typing that the people in tents on the canals will help build houses or work in the HSE.

We don't even know their real names amd half of them can't speak English. So let's just all act like adults while discussing this.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0905/1468364-one-in-three-companies-struggling-to-find-skilled-staff/

One in three companies are struggling to find staff with the right skills, new research shows.

It's always amusing when some lefties start bleating how the country needs immigration to fill the skills gap.

The reality is that they just really love immigration and any excuse that enables more of it will be grasped firmly. The issue of the skills gap is a complete non-sequitur.

We all know that the vast majority of AS are bogus.

There is no debate about that.

The Ministers have stated this is the case, that they actually are economic migrants.

The AS themselves openly admit it, when interviewed.

Can we move on from debating something that has been established for years?

My question is: why does it take 68 weeks to first decision on asylum application?

Why so long?

The current booming economy and full employment is tied in with strong net immigration. It's not a coincidence that they are all happening at the same time. Every time the country goes into recession, the net immigration figure falls dramatically (or even goes into net migration i.e. more people leaving the country than arriving).

It's a fine balancing act: try and actively curtail the net immigration rate and it will immediately impact on the economy negatively. But the issue of there not being enough housing and infrastructure for the rapidly growing population is also very real. There are no easy answers here : a smaller economy or less workers available to do the jobs that are on offer could well mean people having less money in their pockets. The booming economy and budget surplus is dependent on a large, fully employed workforce.

That's a briefing paper from an unknown figure, or figures, within a department.

It's not government position, and the author(s) don't even seem particularly well versed on how deportations operate.

And in other news, scientists have discovered that losing weight causes you to eat less food, and deer will cross roads wherever you put up Deer Crossing signs.

With all the muck that's posted here this is where you decide to cry about falsehood?

I'm not dismissing the Independent at all. I think they've made it pretty clear that this is one secret information note. From looking at the article it doesn't seem to me that they're presenting this as a wider government, or even department position.

You recognize yourself this is the only source you've seen on the matter when you provided it as proof of this being government position on the matter. It didn't take me long at all to find a quite contradictory briefing note from the Department of Justice describing the practical difficulties in deporting IPAs.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/department-of-justice-said-charter-planes-not-needed-for-deportations-as-they-worked-on-tender-to-hire-aircraft/a1070416480.html

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/deportation-system-highly-litigious-and-flights-financially-burdensome-department-1613199.html

In this above article from the Independent, officials from the department of justice outline their plans to facilitate more deportations, but giving the difficulties involved have recognized that…

their priority remained “the removal of criminals” and encouraging other migrants to return home of their own volition.

I think I was pretty clear that it was my opinion when saying 'the author(s) don't even seem particularly well versed on how deportations operate'. What strikes me in this regard is the idea presented within this information note, of withholding visas from countries of origin, as some sort of novel solution which might have a material impact on deportation outcomes. There are numerous examples online of other countries having tried this approach to seemingly very limited success. Nor does it appear to tackle the actual difficulties in completing deportations as described in this ESRI/ENM research piece, which I believe was part funded by the Department of Justice.

https://www.esri.ie/system/files/publications/BKMNEXT087.pdf

There needs to be a distinction made between useful population growth and adding people to the country that need to be taken care of forever.