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French man accused of drugging his wife and inviting men to rape her

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Just to be clear, since I'm the one who started this thread: if you think I've minimised assault against men anywhere I'd appreciate if you point out where please.

    If you don't mean me, you need to make that clear.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Guards can't just set up a checkpoint outside the house of a known drinker. Safeguards like that protect people from the feeling of being "targeted".

    In France the police can and do stop people at random and breathalyse them. It's very common for instance inthe run up to christmas for them to set up checkpoints near business zones to check people leaving work after a christmas drink with their colleagues. They test people entirely at random.

    I've never heard of anyone complaining that this was a slanderous smear on all the decent drivers who were equally targeted by this sort of anti drink driving campaign. #Notalldrivers

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    random checkpoints are not what that post is discussing at all



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As far as I remember ( can't link atm) they swabbed him or took samples at that time that matched up with rape/murder cold case from the 90's.

    To be fair to the cops, there's also the fact that they didn't just write that incident off either, as often happens.

    Yes, yes it does. I have been blue in the face trying to highlight the behavior of a man who has repeatedly acted this way. Found he had been videoing me in my home when my back was turned (I was painting a wall) and just had the camera zoomed in on my arse for 2 minutes. He had the video on his phone for at least a year when I saw it (he accidentally flipped through it while showing me pictures of his elderly mother in a nursing home) but sure he's such an innocent kind boy and look he doesn't mean any harm by it. 😒 An absolute letch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    That makes me despair.

    I would say I hope you find a solution but I know that's an empty phrase in that context.

    Apparently there are four other men involved (I'm not sure if they're in the court today but I think they are going to be in separate cases in the future) who are accused, not of raping Gisèle Pelicot but of being in contact with Dominique Pelicot in order to learn how to drug their own partner(s) to do the same thing with them.

    Seems like this is not going to turn out to be an isolated incident of one weirdo.

    And then of course in Ireland there's this:

    And I wonder, in hindsight, how many of these other women were in fact drugged (in the second one, it's also possible that her partner was drugged, since he was in the same bed when she was being raped)?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    have you ever read a newspaper or history book? peak? this guy and the others are going to jail

    In the past they would have gotten a pack on the back



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    reddit is a cesspit of nonsense, I'm sure you know this

    the amount of salt youd need to consume would kill you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Mr Disco




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    After many years (I did have sympathy for this guy originally which is how he came to be in my company in the first place) I decided to seek legal advice and maybe have a solicitor write him a letter as asking him for some space didn't really go very far. I'd get a couple of months break maybe and he'd come back with a sack full of gifts as an excuse to get back on my right side.

    He tried to move into my home within days of my daughter moving out, and he had the garda help him do it. ( I received a call from them asking if he could stay as he had an argument with his father and had nowhere to go) I helped him get set up with Simon and furnished his new little flat and then asked a friend in the legal profession what to do. He told me to write down what I would ask a solicitor to say, put it in an envelope and after reading it he told me to put it away in a safe place and forget about it. Which I did.

    Years later in counselling I was treated as a pariah for being mean to him. When I went to women's aid and presented them with the letter (a lot of stuff had happened since then) the project worker talked to me about prostitution and when I told her I hadn't had sex with a man in over 20 years she tried to suggest I was his "girlfriend experience".

    I could go on..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,041 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Prison is too good for anyone involved in this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    This is not 70 from 30 million though, as I've shown. This is 70 from one region of France, and at least another 30 from the same region who, when they learned that the plan was rape and not some sort of role play decided not to get involved - but nor did they bother reporting the planned rape to the police either. Not one of them felt strongly enough about it to try to put a stop to it.

    Maybe the only reason some of them didn't do it was they didn't fancy sex with a nearly 70 year old woman. Maybe if she'd been 30 they would have. Who can say. But we can say that they weren't too concerned about her, since they didn't even make an anonymous phone call to the police (the daughter also pointed this out in her testimony today BTW)

    So as I said previously, unless there's some reason to think that this particular area has lots of men with a particularly perverted view of women, the logical conclusion is that every area in France has a significant number of men willing to rape a woman if they think they can get away with it.

    And unless France is different to the rest of Europe, so does the rest of Europe.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    is there the same research on say computer programmers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Christ. Girlfriend experience?? All this "be kind" sh1t - I'm so done with that. Look at the utter fury being shown on this thread about men's hurty feelings. FFS

    (And yet, the socialisation is SO strong that I'm going to do yet another "notallmen" myself , well, sort of 😎 So here goes: yes I can SEE that there are a number of male posters on here who've been great. The shame is that even needs to be said when it should be the norm. Imagine having to say "Isn't it great that some men don't need to make a rape case all about 'Wah wah, poor poor men and nasty mean women'". Yet here we are. Again.)

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Haha, just the tip of the iceberg. It's his mother I was actually more concerned about. She had a convenient fall down the stairs one weekend when he needed to head off in his annual whore expedition with the local Liverpool supporters club. There was no one to look after her but good job they managed to find her a bed in the hospital once they discovered her hip was broken. Helping her up the stairs he was. Hopped on a flight as soon as she was comfortable and made his special weekend in time. ❤️ He's a sweetheart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    is it not the case that 1 man is no more responsible for the actions of another man than another woman and vice versa?

    was the first response in the thread not an answer in itself and the rest of the thread a waste of time

    what I will say is there are people out there engaging in all sorts of what normies would drop a jaw at

    and the scenario in play here, although it is feckin mental on so many levels from either side does exist for real, it is very very rare for obvious reasons



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I confess that the huge amount of data concerning sexual abuse over the last few days has been taking its toll. It's just horrible stuff and it won't stay down any longer. I hope we are edging closer to the end of the days of the violent, destructive, sexually abusive men. (And the people who would keep their victims silent)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    And whose fault is that? All the posters desperately trying to deflect from what actually happened, that's who. Like yourself.

    I've been posting links to the live coverage of the case, with handy translation for anyone who's interested, but it seems that some posters just want to discuss me and my supposed agenda instead. Why don't you discuss the case instead of dismissing it with all sorts of uninformed nonsense that anyone actually following it would know was untrue?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    imagine even being on that medication for so long, youd be melted from it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    sorry I didn’t realize your intent was digressing into a non-sequitur.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    you’re free to look, the world is your oyster. That’s not my burden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    It is correct though. You're assuming the journalist is wrong because??

    I've posted examples of the accused being men who were living in the region. I'm not going to go through 50 men one by one. So if you have some evidence that these were exceptions, let's see it. Otherwise I'm going to continue supposing that the journalists reporting on the case know more about it than you do.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    bit of self education no harm from time to time, take a break from the posting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    plus they are listed in a court case, listing who the people are

    its quite local



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That’s not good enough for the OP. Until all men are castrated they wont be happy

    Done reading this toxic shite



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    there you go, all the reason in the world for you to hop on Google scholar and have your own query answered



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Her children have made several comments about not being able to leave her alone for even a night, because they're so afraid she will commit suicide.

    I'd be even more worried about her mental state after this case: yesterday/this morning, the defence lawyers were trying to discredit the medical expert because she showed some slight emotion, ie was not neutral, when describing what happened, and also used the word "rape" instead of "sex scene". Rape apparently has not yet been proven.

    Imagine if the case were thrown out on a technicality about the medical expert allegedly being "overcome by emotion"?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


     I'm not going to go through 50 men one by one

    therein lies the fallacy of assuming and claiming they all live within a 20 minute drive of her current residence. Despite the fact the reporting (the journalists are wrong because???) notes that the crimes began when they lived in Paris, hours and hours away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    go on then discuss the case, in particular demonstrate what if anything I said is untrue as you are claiming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don't know how rare it is, and I suspect neither do you. If this man hadn't been caught for a "minor" transgression in public, or if the local cops had been what seems to be your average misogynistic copper, going by what's coming out of various English police forces, this would be ongoing. Four men were also found to be "learning" his techniques to use on their own wives/girlfriends.

    The man's wife and children had literally zero idea that he was doing this - the daughter today said that the day after learning about it, she took her six year old son to school and she was trying to work out how to tell him that he was never going to see his grandfather whom he loved so much ever again. The point being that he was to all appearances, a great dad and grandfather. Why should we think he's the only monster around? Especially when there are 70 others in the region.

    Another of the men was described by a friend as someone he'd have left his own children with without a moment's hesitation.

    These are men who are well integrated into society, and there were a lot of them. And then there are others who knew but didn't report it. Not even an anonymous call to the police, as the daughter said.

    So yes, IMO those men are responsible too. As are all the men who, like Wayne Couzens colleagues, snigger about their friend/colleague's treatment of women - he was nicknamed "the rapist" at work, but nobody bothered looking into that either.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    The crimes in Paris may have had perpetrators in the Paris area. And when, instead of repeating this speculation over and over despite being given evidence of local men being accused, you make an effort and go and look up the perpetrators, you may find some from the Paris region - so find out what dates those crimes took place.

    Because you can keep denying it, but you have zero evidence, whereas I have given a couple of examples, and others have provided quotes from coverage of the trial all indicating that recruitment was generally from within a fairly short distance.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    LOL you haven't said anything except speculation. I've given links and quotes that disprove them.

    So it's up to you to prove my evidence wrong, not up to me to keep on showing that your speculation is based on nothing except - at best - you misreading a sentence in the press. I, and others, have already done that.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭Yvonne007


    You're right. We should question every man because this guy was able to present himself as a decent upstanding human. Every man is a potential rapist and should be treated as such.

    Is this what you want everyone to say?

    God help you if you spoke about any man in my life like that.

    This thread would have been zapped if you had been speaking about anyone except men. The type of misandry you are typing is why people dislike radical feminists.

    It is possible to be outraged and discuss this vile situation without resorting to shrill, man-hating nonsense.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    the average misogynistic copper? look this was a random set of cops and well could you ask any more from them

    his technique? to learn it, you would need to get your wife on serious sleeping pills medication, how do you get over that slight hurdle

    look on the rapist nickname, hard to remember but he made some female colleagues uncomfortable, there may have been nothing to look into, its a bit fuzzy, I think any historical things came up after he got caught, no one was hiding him

    If anything the joke was on him

    you need something to go off like the case above

    I said the legit fantasy he was purporting is extremely rare but does exist

    it is rare

    the above is rare, unless you can come up with another instance like it

    Its hard to know why you are surprised he managed to blend in

    the wayne couzens scenario is rare



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


     If this man hadn't been caught for a "minor" transgression in public, or if the local cops had been what seems to be your average misogynistic copper, going by what's coming out of various English police forces, this would be ongoing.

    Love it: 'even when a men stop a rapist, men are still just pigs.'

    Utterly toxic agenda there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You've already said you aren't bothered to look through even 50 accused for this information yet you want to hold me to a higher standard. Gas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Yes, you have indeed already been misreading the press.

    The NYT report clearly indicates the abuses went on for some 9 years beginning in Paris which contradicts your claim these men were all local to the woman's current residence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    do you only have a subscription to the New York times. It began in paris moved to Mazon 2013, it mostly happened there, most of the men lived in the locality, it could be most of the other men lived in Paris when it happened there



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    do you only have a subscription to the New York times. 

    Droll to attack me for citing the article the OP used in the Original Post to base their screed on.

    That doesn't contradict the NYT report. It also just coincides with what I stated much earlier in the thread:
    "

    "it also says the victim worked in the paris area for 20 years before they moved to avignon at her retirement, she would have been about 62 when she retired (france retirement age pre 2023) and the police put the timeline of abuses at beginning about 2011, she's 71 now. So, that would put her retirement in about/around 9 years ago, ~2013 so the abuses would have begun in the paris area seemingly, if we are to extrapolate off the reporting in front of us and knowledge of french retirement ages.

    "smallish" area, Avignon being down near Montpellier. Based on the reporting I don't think there are 70 rapists living within a brisk walk of the victim or something as the OP is trying to make it out as."

    And the NYT report makes it clear several of the accused have occupations that would take them afar from the immediate local area of the crime, they wouldn't have to live nearby to have opportunity to be part of the scheme and could do so while 'passing through,' Avignon being a major arterial junction between Montpellier, Lyon and Marseille.

    The accused men represent a kaleidoscope of working-class and middle-class French society: truck drivers, soldiers, carpenters and trade workers, a prison guard, a nurse, an I.T. expert working for a bank, a local journalist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,365 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    How tf has a thread about a woman being raped by dozens of men over years, all instigated by her husband become about poor victimised men, evil women and pedantic back and forths about where the men were from? Jesus christ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    its a hilarious dig at your american obsession

    the op isn't making out anything like this

    its certainly most came from the locality. This is a fair point, at least one from the neighbourhood

    a lot of interest from just one town versus the husband having to work on getting people from across france the world, which dilutes the problem

    its madness that this didn't come to light sooner given the number of people involved



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    the location of the men is a very pertinent point, given the context of the ops post

    the numbers involved are nuts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,182 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    None of the men in the case are victims.

    I've seen no credible references to 'evil women?'

    Where the men are from is central to the OP's sweeping statements to accuse men the world over of harboring rapists as part of 'bro culture' and such. Seems important to get factual clarification on where the accused all hail from exactly, so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Its not the men in the case who are victims, its the others not in the case

    he is referring to others response to the op and her perhaps generalization, assuming there is such a thing as a woman on here, ok then man



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,253 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    . Every man is a potential rapist and should be treated as such.

    Is this what you want everyone to say?

    The original point of this thread per the initial thread title was that because no Irish men had created a thread condemning this case , we were in fact condoning it and would do the same if we had the chance. The OP expressly said the only thing stopping us from committing rape is the threat of violence from husbands.

    It’s absolutely astonishing and I’ve said it over and over but the exact same thread about immigrants, travellers, Muslims or pretty much any other group would have been shut down immediately, but not only is it apparently ok to say these things about men, if you disagree you’re enabling violence against women.

    The thread title has been changed by the mods but the overall thrust of the OP’s argument has not changed one iota, even after it’s been shown that she grossly misrepresented basic facts to make it seem like a much higher proportion of men were involved.

    All that has changed is the OP is just digging in more and more that “men in general” are the problem here and anyone who disagrees is a rapist or at best a rape apologist.

    Absolute clusterf**k from beginning to end, and it certainly was never anything to do with the case in France.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 721 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Jesus, he had also taken pictures of his daughters-in-law when they were in the shower or naked in the bathroom.

    I suppose that was nothing to him after what he did to his own daughter and wife.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭Yvonne007


    Oh well that makes it even worse. I can only imagine what the thread originally was titled.

    I haven't started a thread about the school fire in Kenya.

    That must mean I hate Kenyans and am a big ol' racist.

    Silly carry-on



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