DART+ (DART Expansion)

A shuttle service makes it trivial to ensure that the Howth-branch trains arrive just in time for the Northern line trains - there’s very little chance of being left waiting on a platform.

Regarding standing, Dublin passengers are already very good about giving up their seat to those with a medical need to sit down, and TII has a recent programme where people with non-obvious disabilities can get a badge to indicate this need, and that project has also been very well received.

So, the problem of the elderly/pregnant/disabled passenger is not a problem. We’re basically left with the argument that an able-bodied passenger used to almost always be able to sit for the whole journey, but now might have to stand for some of it, I’m afraid there’s no sympathy on offer for that position.

The Howth branch is a small not highly populated line. That is even with all the new apartments coming on stream in Howth.

What is planned will be an increase in services along the Howth branch, albeit with a connection to be made en route. This happens the world over on big urban systems. Changing trains is nothing new and even something we do a lot of in Ireland and for the most part quite well.

I do think a bit of engineering at Howth Junction is needed. If they could make the down platform on the Howth Branch one with a set of buffer blocks at the Dublin end, then you could run the DART ex Howth into this platform without the signal overrun into the crossover at the junction. You could then have parallel arrivals into both platforms and then a simple cross platform onto the DART ex Clongriffin / Malahide / Drogheda. It would make a slightly lesser walk from the down main platform to this platform too.

A crossover already exists to allow trains do this movement. A new crossover would have to be installed to allow any trains trying to access the branch to cross over after Kilbarrack and then over to the down side on the branch after the station.

it's up to others around the country to campaign for rail services to either be instated if a route can be found, or re-instated if the route is still available or a new route can be found.
it's not up to that poster to not complain about changes to their service because some around the country don't have a rail service at all, in some cases those people choosing to not fight to retain their rail service when they had it.

it's not that poster's fault or problem.

The overall speed of service will also increase slightly as diesel trains are taken out of contention with the electric DARTs.

On that, I know that 12tph is what is being promised, but does anyone have a guess at what the maximum frequency would be on these lines when done? My guess is that with modern signalling and modern rolling stock, sections with no other service using the line (e.g. Hazelhatch-Glasnevin), it should be possible to get to 30 tph (2 min between trains) if needed.

I don't think they are using "DX", but it's definetly possible. This was from the full size mockup last year, and I think about a year newer from the pictures linked in the comment above, which I think are all from the dart+ fleet video (funny enough the thumbnail doesn't even use DX). Either way I hope they don't go with DX naming, I feel like there just has to be a better system.

I hope so. The only problem I could think of with that naming is for clarification between DART North/South terminating at connolly and the current DART running between Malahide/Howth and Bray/Greystones. But I feel like that could be fixed by naming them "DART Central" or something like that. I don't think its a big problem though, I just think changing the service from a "DART North" to a "DART South" or vice versa as it passes connolly is impractical.

I think it would be best to have all rail/light rail/metro routes on a similar numbering system but one that is distinctly different to the bus routes.

Encourage people to think of it all as one integrated network rather than DART or Luas while also retaining those brandings even if that sounds at odds!

This is a great suggestion - they definitely need to think ahead here. As the network builds out (particularly a Luas and Dart network), there has to a better way to describe routes. Red and Green simply won't do it.

For Dart, the R could also stand for Rapid, in line with the R in DART (....LOL).

Agreed, any time I'm in an unfamiliar city I usually find colour coded systems more intuitive and far easier to memorise than numbered. Won't make much difference for locals but for tourists etc the fact you can just glance at the map and instantly know which line is which and what it interchanges with simply by the colour of the lines makes a surprisingly big difference.

I think only colour coded names should be avoided, partially because I think the colours can be limiting as well as colour only isn't great as like someone else mentioned a good chunk of the population is colour blind. But mostly because I think it should have a seperate naming system from luas network. Still there should be some colour coding, but it should be secondary system to either a named system (like west, north, etc) or a lettered/numbered system.

though i think in a more ideal system, the trams would not have used colour coding, especially if we get anywhere close the post-2042 luas plans. If all goes well, there will eventually be more tram lines/services than there would be heavy rail lines/services, and too many services to colour code them without becoming a mess

If we get anywhere near the post-2042 Luas lines, there will have to be more interchangeability, like Amsterdam, which makes colour coded names impractical.

Numbered lines are the worst of the bunch I'd say, at least with London the names are generally memorable so you still figure it out quickly.

But as an example I was in Barcelona over the summer where all their lines are L1, L5, L9 etc and even using the system daily for nearly a week I never got a grasp of what lines went where, which number matched each colour on the map, or even what line I'd just been on 5 minutes ago

Correct, and if they go down Thomas Street and Dame Street to Trinity College, which colour for trams turning down to Hueston and which for going on straight.

ahh true I didn't really think of that. Of course I wasn't thinking just to use b/w colour schemes, but I just meant I would have prefered if it was the secondary "route name" rather than the primary route name, the DART+ system maps are mroe or less what I was picturing. but when you explain it like that I guess coloured lines do make a lot of sense. I would still be interested in irish rail at least looking at another system, but the more I think about it the more I realise unless they are using the DART+ names (S, SW, W, N, but they have other issues), it really doesn't difference and keeping it simple (just using colour names) would be best.

like I said above, it didn't really cross my mind it doesn't make as much of a difference as I was thinking. Especially since, at most I can't imagine they would have more than 7 lines/colours? And even then, 7 colours assumes the PPT and Heuston SW services, the Maynooth and M3 (or if they extended the line to Navan) W services, as well as North/South and current DART(DART Central?) services would all have unique colours.

For Cardinal Direction I would assume in the final thing they would use a different name for the current DART line. For the naming and destination I assume it would be similair to the busses where the route name and destination together. All that said I don't think its the best option. I still don't see the problem with SW/W/N/S naming, but I don't think its the best option.

I personally think colours would be better, similar to the TFI Rail and Tram network map that’s out now, rail as solid colours, and trams as a double stripe. It’s the easiest way to do things map wise but in terms of line names I do see a number/letter and number system being the best way to go…

I think they would be absolutely cracked to treat Luas Lucan as a reach off of the Red Line and also to not include the south city centre section where trams share tracks along the canal and through James’ where the almost full grade-separation has capacity for such a thing. (A side note but I’ve always believed they should extend Luas Lucan towards Tara/Pearse Stations and even onto Ringsend/Irishtown, makes far more sense than looping the Red Line back around via an expensive lifting bridge over the Liffey…)

Oh god no. "Michael Collins Line" is even worse than "Red Line".

I favour a much more systematic numbering, as used on the Continent. The new BusConnects routes are actually great example of how a naming system can uniquely identify services while also conveying additional useful information: all bus routes with the same letter travel along the same general route, but you don't need to know that to get your right bus. Is like that concept to be carried over to all of the regional transport.

For Luas, I'd use a numeric version of that idea, so 11, 12 are the two branches of Red, 21 is green. The first digit tells you the corridor, the second the branch. Prefix with L or T if needed. Your O'Connell St signpost now has a tram symbol, then 11, 12 on a red backdrop pointing to Abbey St; 21 on a green backdrop pointing to the GPO or Marlborough St. Such direction signs can be uniform size, which helps recognition, and can carry more information on a given size, as (important for Ireland), there's no need to translate line names into Engilish/Irish.

Use Rxx for DART lines, as D is taken for Bus. Mxx for metro if not already taken by buses.