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Naval Service General Discussion - Fleet, Manpower, Policy

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Thanks some interesting historical information there, a lot which is in the public domain. You are correct re plans for blocks 9 and 11. I also understand Block 10 is planned for redevelopment over the medium term. Your point is a fair one, the DF is lumbered with a bunch of old buildings across many locations but unless it moves to new sites, such is the state of dilapidation they should either be torn down or renovated. Haulbowline is an example par excellence. It really sends a signal to those who serve where they stand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    No sign of the new Zealand ships that were bought in 21 (I think) entering service?I am open to correction but naval personnel gave six months approximately abroad getting modifications for them , shipping back ,,more modifications, honestly if it was vessels for the Irish sea the new customs vessels look sweet but if something a bit bigger was needed if they went about ordering sure at the time of purchase they would nearly be ready by now,, responsibility seems to fall on nobody???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    good man, no need for the condescension there, not all posters here have access to the book you refer. Secondly, thanks for clarifying re some of the buildings on Haulbowline, however, this poses the obvious question as to why they are not under DF control at this point? The location presents questions of access and to whom they present the best use - to other govt departments they are in effect stranded assets. No ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So the Russians were just outside Cork Harbour?

    @Dohvolle did you wave at the Russians from Cobh?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41421892.html

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I'm guessing that's in reference to the story a while back about the RN sending a Merlin to outside the harbour?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Yip indeed.

    The below article is paywalled but it looks like some is using the good auld drug gangs as a need for naval helicopters.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41418895.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    they are stretching it a bit though, I mean it’s not like we had the capability even when Eithne was in service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    THe old story...You get what you pay for. The P60's look pretty but their shortcomings are now being exposed. Same deal with the NZ patrol vessels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    When both IPVs are in service is there a suggestion that they will reclass them as another class rather than IPVs?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A couple of them Vard 7 125's would fit the bill perfectly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    What a beautiful ship. And for a vessel its size it's armed to the bloody teeth. Just the ticket to have Jonny Russian high tailing it back to home port. Show them we mean business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Jonny dont worry about the russians as we know the real danger is the Scottish Fisheries Protection Agency and there fleet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Kiwis that are over here helping getting the IPVs in service was that part of the overall package that we paid new zealand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I had the pleasure of visiting a beautiful Spanish naval ship yesterday. The sailing training vessel Juan Sebastian de Alcano, here in the port of London. ...I believe it was in Ireland a few years back?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Berthing trials in Dún Laoghaire eh, I wonder why that was being done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see the Navy this morning are saying that P71 is actually on operational patrol now. Are they been flexable with the truth?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So with the Defence Review saying what everyone knows about the cables out at sea could we see the state buy a vessel like the UKs RFA proteus before we see the MRV? Irish lights are replacing there vessel shortly is there much life left in it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    we are into the end days of this government with none of any of the capital programs advancing at all (apart from perhaps their transport), the Review is just more empty waffle with no intention of actually doing anything let alone the insane idea of buying anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Navy certainly won't be acquiring a separate vessel to the MRV for the purpose.

    Perhaps the Irish Lights/Coastguard/Marine Institute may have their respective capabilities increased when it comes to a replacement of the current ILV Granuaile.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 264 ✭✭zone 1


    MRV is 10 15 years away for navy if it even happen……. if theirs navy at that stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Hope not 10-15 years, but given we are looking at 3 or so months left in this government, its fate seems certain to pass to whatever shape the next government ends up being, so any point out to 5 years before the order given how long the can has been kicked.

    That being said, I wonder will defence actually make an appearance in the upcoming GE, and maybe among all the usual insane "NATO CONSCRIPTION" BS, we might hear some actual policies and plans, given how the LOA2 is meant to be reached under the next government…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The defence forces are spending a good chunck of change on a recruitment consultant to get staff for the navy. Imagine if they used some of that funding on the Fitters they trained and lost to industry in the cork area.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/defence-forces-pay-recruitment-firm-33433253



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Retention just isn’t a concern of the DOD/Finance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    As we can see with the current senior leadership issue in AGS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Looks like the IPVs are getting closer to operations. No east coast base picked yet. Dohvolle had mentioned wicklow town and others south dublin. I wonder is there a bit of poltics been played over the base so TDs can cut the ribbion in there area?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41467897.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Told you before, it IS Dún Laoghaire, the announcement is being held back until the election campaign.

    Micheál Martin, JCMN, Cormac Devlin and Ossian Smyth will all be milking it for all it is worth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    ya if there was ever any doubt, the fact that Jennifer Carroll Mc Neill is the TD for Dun Laoighaire should swing it IMHO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Ah well…That's that sorted then…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Article below from the Journal. They are saying high numbers in training which is good news and i dont think the examiner will be getting an invite any day soon to the naval base.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-naval-service-criticism-6476975-Sep2024/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I mean fine, they're entitled to parrot the party line, but manpower issues are not within their remit as operations officers.

    They are being vociferous, as you would expect, but my question to Capt. Kirwan would be; if two ships and two planes are adequate for the maritime security of the State, then why do we possess eight?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I'm seeing the article being retweeted a lot today almost as if the article is saying "all is fine. We're not supposed to have 100% of ships at sea at once". Which is fine, I get some will be in refit or whatever, but doesn't it still mean that the bottom line is that only one or two ships can be on patrol in an area the size of Ireland's EEZ? How can that be presented as a not bad thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I dont think there is a military not struggling with personal. The UK are in trouble, Canada is short 10k and even the US Navy are starting to park up ships.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It’s a fair point, our issues of course are compounded by the issue of having too small a force in the first place and the long standing indifference the politicians and public have had towards the DF.

    However in relation to the commissioning, and long term issues, I see Martin has announced that the Sea Going Tax Credit has been extended for 5 years.

    https://x.com/RACO_DF/status/1831390530884005925



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    @dohvolle the Masterplan that the examiner was talking about yesterday is that old masterplan with the dock back working and aircraft hangars?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It will be interesting to see if the government will try to get two ships to say hello to the russians for show?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41471026.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They could even go wild and send 2 P60s and 2 Casas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    feck, do you want all our Tankies losing their minds over us being mean to the Russians…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No doubt the REAL Irish Navy will be in attendance.

    USS Fitzgerald, USS Michael Murphy, USS Patrick Gallagher, USS Michael J Mullen

    With a few Virginia Class SSNs along for the spin to put the shyts up Johnny Russian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    What would you do with these nice photos,, not many would want to frame them....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    What any government would do with a photo like that show it too the media. Harris can show james joyce along side a russian ship off the west coast taken from a casa and say look i am taking security very serious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That is, of course, if the Russian ships don't break down or run out of fuel en route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I see Jonny Russian is "at it" up in the Baltic at the moment. Probably heading our way in a bit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Jonny Russian has far bigger headaches to worry about.

    Like Biden and Starmer releasing the hounds, and removing the restrictions on Storm Shadow and ATACMS use inside of Russian Federation territory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,975 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see DLR are starting Dún Laoghaire Harbour masterplan consulation. The state should look to take full control of the old ferry building and car park back from DLR.

    Apart from east coast base it could also be a Naval & Army reserve base.

    With the thousands the walk on the pier it would also be a great place to advertise the defence forces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not sure how many DLH master plans I've seen come and go since the early 1990s, but not one of them ever got remotely close to their objectives, except I'd concede, the short lived HSS service.

    Maybe with DLRCC now in charge, it will be more likely to deliver the investment and project management needed to get the elements moving.

    One of them will certainly be the east coast naval station, but its not the former ferry terminal being considered for that. That building will remain and become even more publicly accessible as projects to revitalise it arise.

    I'm told that the former ferry marshalling yard east of the Terminal is the most likely spot for a self contained naval station, with access to the deeper berths on the former HSS pier, once known as St. Michael's Wharf.

    That location is well over 2 Hectares and it will also have a new Marina control and visitor centre and a national sailing school of excellence - think Skibbereen rowing centre but for open water disciplines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    One of the P60s to join NATO ships in a PASSEX around now. Entirely coincidental to the Russian Navy loitering around cable routes in our EEZ....

    Meanwhile NATO officials due in Dublin to work on a bespoke operational, capability and intelligence sharing agreement, all strictly within the confines of PfP, of course....

    AND while other NATO officials discuss plans with Ireland to nexus, on our territory, an Atlantic Ocean energy interconnector to protect Members from strategic attacks on their domestic infrastructure from bad actors, whomever they may be.

    I mean at this stage, shouldn't we just join the damn Alliance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,074 ✭✭✭sparky42


    but then we will all be conscripted!!!
    Or more accurately then we would have to work towards spending 2+% on defence and that doesn’t win elections.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As I've said on here before I'm no great fan of the idea of joining NATO as a full member anyway.

    But, if we can actually get some of the strategic security benefits of membership, through a bilateral administrative deal, and without having the DF put through the wringer of a NATO cohesion demand, we'd be insane not to make that deal.

    At the same time, that deal cannot and should not replace those objectives to police our skies and seas properly, ourselves, with our own assets and people. But NATO has the best intelligence and military planning capability of any military entity on Earth, and if we can get ourselves more under that Umbrella, then we should.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    I think it is time for us to grow up a bit and consider our security, where our interests are aligned, who shares our values and actually contribute to our security. The logical extension of that is NATO membership IMHO. Our neutrality evolved from our approach in WW2 where we were ‘neutral’ on one side. A version of this has continued as an anti Brit stance and has evolved into some form of pacifism crossed with cute hoorism with some form of exceptionalism masquerading as a foreign policy. When we were poor, had no real national interests and were turned-in on ourselves we got away with it. Much harder to maintain this when these excuses are gone. Our way of life economically and socially derives from our place in the world and international trade where relative to our size we are one of the largest winners. Can’t see thatbNATOMhasn done Norway much



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