Slow Play again

Yea I gotta admit the whole world is gone mad with rights and entitlements.

To me the only thing you are entitled to is the respect of others when you treat them with respect.

Fair play is good sport and all that.

My comment was on life in general rather than golf.

On the golf front I agree totally with yours.

Think once maybe twice I have come across people acting the eejit

Most times it is embarrassment as you say is the overriding emotion..as I know too well😄

I think sometimes the problem lies in when people plan their shot, select club, etc. I will generally arrive at my ball and it will be someone elses turn. While they are hitting, I plan my shot, select my club, pick the spot over which I'm going to aim, etc. So when my turn comes, I'm ready to take a practice swing and then hit my shot. I'm not rushing anything.

But I see lots of people who start this ritual when it's their turn to hit and it adds considerable time. The 15 seconds they spend doing this will add over 20 minutes to the round. And that's just one player doing it.

You sound like myself! In the past 5 years I have become a wizard with a low 4 iron from under the timber, I nearly use it a much as the putter!

One hole I played on Monday is almost laughable, it’s a 510 yard dog leg left par 5. It generally had a short run out to the turn, 190 straight from the tee will put you in the woods. But the trees protecting the dog leg are now monsters in height and width, so going over them is a complete non-runner, and trying to cut in around them is also ruled out, unless you have a savage low hook in your armour. So most play 8/9 off the tee as the 140 mark is at the turn, you can’t risk over hitting it as the trees at the far side have come in on top of the fairway so you could be blocked out! Its definitely one of the few part 5’s I’ve played where I hit 9 iron from the tee!

Not judging slow play by the total amount of time to play a round is rather bizarre.

"I wouldn't judge someone a slow golfer just because they take more shots. That can't be avoided, aside from picking up when out of the hole. It's the time taken for each shot that is the deciding factor and the only thing an individual golfer has control over."

I'd questions this part a little. Length of time taken to hit a shot is far from the only factor impacting a players pace of play. Some players are more deliberate than others but make up for it by being ready to go when its their turn and other basic common sense things like leaving the bag where it should be en route to next tee, playing ready golf etc. Its when you add not being ready to a slow pre-shot routine that things get bad IMO, regardless of skill level.

As someone else already said, IMO the number 1 cause of slow play is people looking for golf balls far beyond the 3 minute limit and players not hitting provisionals. In a stableford comp theres really no excuse for spending the full 3 minutes a lot of the time. If you hit into knee high cabbage you really need to have the mindset walking down to it that the ball is lost. I'd only give a very quick look in the exact area I think it would be in those cases, 99% of the time you aren't going to find it so quick look and move on to the provisional, shouldn't take more than 30 seconds and shouldn't involve your playing partners. Really the 3 minute limit should only be used where theres a reasonable expectation to find the ball. Unfortunately you have lads who find a ball in the middle of the thick stuff once a year that take the mind sight that they'll find every ball in that situation.

Spare a thought for the Ladies Open, rounds taking up to 7 hours. Leona McGuire arriving on oar 3 11th, there were 5 groups waiting, it took over an hour for her to play it.

20 minute wait on the 5th tee for the leaders today at the women's open, as mentioned above the pace of play is abysmal

Two of the toughest links in bad conditions and a 3 day tournament where people will take it very seriously but may or may not know the courses…

5.5 hrs is ugh yes but I wouldnt go there and expect this to be quick tbh.

I've definitely come to the conclusion that slow play is mostly simply down to players just being slow/deliberate (delete as appropriate !).

Saturday was 3hrs 43mins, off the back tees, whereas Sunday, off the forward tees, was 4hrs 36mins with a different group. Same tee time. Both games hugely enjoyable, just shows how different players operate and go about their games.

Its average nearly everywhere.

Played Headfort New and Mount Juliet recently.

Headfort was 5 hours in a 4 ball stableford off forward tees. There's plenty of walking between holes. One chap was off a high index and struggled with the carries over water so it slowed us down a bit when reloading. Two single figure lads and 1 mid index. We had to wait maybe 2-3 times over the last few holes. There were a few lost ball searches also tbf. The two single figure lads are quick golfers.

Mount Juliet was a 3 ball stableford on forward tees also. One scratch golfer and 2 mid index. Total time was 4hr 15m and that included waiting on the last 6-7 holes plus 5 mins stop at halfway for refreshments. Two groups appeared stuck ahead of us, and 2 more backed up behind. Not many lost balls as the course is relatively wide in parts. The two guys are fast golfers too.

I guess your mileage varies based on the day, course layout, weather and playing partners. Mount Juliet easily could have been 3hr45 and out the gap without the stop and delays.

I think this is spot on to be honest. 4.5 to 5 hour golf is not for everyone , I personally hate it. I get bored and then the slow play and routines just do my head in. But the good news is , there are lots of other formats of golf and ways to play golf that is faster.

Just Irish club scene is obsessed with 4 balls and finishing out - people take the game way to serious in Ireland . But I have seen a positive trend , with more ways to record a score , 9 holes, general play.

I'm not an early riser - but as I get older maybe this will be the way to go. Lads that want to get around quick are out early .

The secret to golf is to find like minded golfers that want the same thing. There are a good few golfers out there that genuinely want a 5 hour round , they are not going to change for anyone , in fact they are inclined to almost slow down to make a point if they are told about it. Golf by its nature is a bit a selfish and self absorbed.

A big mistake I see people make , is they go out with the complete wrong expectation. Certain days are going to be very slow - golf type, course, player type. When you go out with an unrealistic expectation of how long a round will be. This is a recipe for disaster for yourself and everyone involved. With experience , I've definitely improved here.

But back to your point - golf is not for everyone , it is utterly impractical and ridiculously timing consuming, too hard , over too large an area , into a small hole - and then have 4 lads at this at the same time - it just doesn't work.

We were stuck behind a group this morning who lost 2 holes to the group in front of them. They would have seen us sanding waiting on nearly every shot. They should have let us through but didn’t. And it’s quite awkward to ask to get through especially when you only half know the people involved.

Played with a group of players at the weekend and will never again. The 4ball was made up of 1 mid handicap and 3 high, handicaps ranged from 12-35 and it was strokes. As you can imagine there was plenty of 3 being played off the tee, sometimes 5 and once a guy was playing 7, who hoped to find one of them in the bushes. We’d got an early tee time, 4th group out and very little traffic in front. In theory, this should have been a casual 4 hours that turned into 5 & 1/2 hours by the time we let groups through. Ability for the group to keep the ball in play (myself included at times) consistently was the biggest issue, followed by more than one player reloading off the tee. But what really bothered me most was the lack of awareness to how slow people were and wouldn’t make small measures to pick up the pace. Bags being left away from the next tee box, casually nattering between shots, arduous pre shot routines. I lost count of the amount of times I said we had fallen behind and need to pick up the pace (group in front were out of sight by the second hole), just fell on deaf ears. Completely infuriating.

Rant over.

Late Saturday evening a lad decided to join our group as we had one spot free. I nearly died when I saw the name as I envisaged a very long day out hacking around.

Come yesterday and off we set, true, the round was long, however I found out midway through that this man has had a myriad of health problems and procedures in his latter years.

We played our round and by my judgement we were only 20 minutes later than normal. The one thing l took from it all was when this lad came over to us on the 18th and told us how much he really enjoyed the day out. He finds it hard to get out and about, he needs the buggy to get around and apart from very necessary journeys he's confined to his house.

There's many reasons why lads could be slow however with regards to health, none of us really know what's around the corner 🤔

Did you report them?

Totally agree Fix,

The culture around slow play is bonkers at times. We've gone to now thinking 4:30/4:45 is grand, that a 4 hour round is "running", the whole "sure you're out for the day anyway" bla bla bla.

Not sure how to fix it though, because the real issue is that slow players don't think they're slow. Maybe Golf Ireland could do some work/presentations, even a bloody e-mail outlining what's acceptable.

Was kinda on the fence about this but on reflection you need to do something to incentivise people to cop on. I dunno if a few emails/videos from GI will help here.

If you were slowing things up on an expensive course you should meet a ranger querying the situation. Not that you'd be kicked off the course, but they'd bench you until a couple of groups passed through.

If you report the slow group what will actually happen to them beyond a friendly call that night from a committee member asking them to speed up?

It's not like they'll see any repercussions and if something warranted is another debate.

An information campaign works in every other aspect of life.

Safety

workplace

smoking

cycling

Recycling

Health issues

Road safety

First Aid

Advertising / domestic life

Global warming

Political

Social issues

Security issues

Why is golf so different and it would make no differences - are golfers special types. A strange outlier of life.

I agree entirely, there are signs (multiple even) on nearly every course indicating the appropriate pace at 1, 9 and in between. Posters in the locker room and pro shop. Plus occasional emails to members on etiquette and stepping aside.

There is an abundance of information that's being ignored and too much preciousness of "I'm not slow!" or "They can f'n wait, I'm not being raced around by xyz!".

Clearly, the info is inadequate and ineffective. It needs something else to supplement and make it more effective. I don't think we'll end up going as far as DQ'ing people in my club or having a way to "clock" them. The onus will be on players to call out the other groups respectfully and seek to play through.

I had an idea of suggesting a 2-3 strike policy. Eg if you get reported (with photos) that you're unreasonably holding up play. However, the reporter needs to have at least first spoken to group to move on or play through with nothing resulting afterwards. If you get reported 2-3 times, you lose access to booking tee times via app/web until you attend an etiquette meeting. The only issue with anything like this is it fosters animosity and takes a fair amount of admin effort with the balls to follow through on the committee side. I just foresee this being loads of photos, letters, moaning and phone calls without much improvement.

Maybe a mandatory etiquette refresher for everyone is required 1-2 times per year.