Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

1251252253255257

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 607 ✭✭✭maik3n


    Hmmmz.…. Khelif is not suing for defamation so whether she takes any test or the results get released are m00t.
    She is suing for cyberbullying and unless you had blinkers on, it's patently clear that JK, along with Lord Elon and Logal Paul among others, brought an onslaught of hate and bullying down upon Khelif.

    You could perhaps argue that JK and the others aren't responsible for what their fans/simps do online but I think the days of that excuse holding any sway are thankfully coming to an end.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Perhaps you would be kind enough to share one of these examples of so called "cyber bullying" ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,644 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I've read Khelif's bogus lawsuit - and unless cyber bullying has been redefined to "telling the truth when you want to keep perpetuating a falsehood and would rather no one said anything" - JKR has nothing to worry about.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,644 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    oh you found it? Can you throw up a link please I tried looking for it but I’m no good with the French websites. Thanks in advance. I’d like to verify your dismissive evidence free claim for myself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Who died and made you the arbiter of all things?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Maybe if you don't even know what the lawsuit says, you shouldn't really be telling other people to read the lawsuit as though you have a clue? Something of a chancer, aren't you?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,644 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    why shouldn’t I tell people to read the lawsuit when they had questions about it? You’re a chancer there not I. “Perhaps you would be kind enough to share one of these examples of so called "cyber bullying" ?”

    have you seen the lawsuit? I haven’t. Neither am I throwing doubt on any of the claims in their lawsuit. The chancers here are the ones pretending to have read the lawsuit and declaring there’s nothing to it while not providing evidence for that claim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    So when you said "She's suing so read her lawsuit maybe" - the truth is that you had no idea whether that lawsuit provided any examples of cyber bullying or not? Because you haven't read it? Yet you're implying that you know there are such examples in it.

    That's a pretty blatant example of chancing your arm. 😁

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,171 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Most articles point to statements that JK rowling made. It s not that hard to find

    https://wired.me/science/imane-khelif-cyberbullying-elon-musk-jk-rowling/#:~:text=Rowling%20inaccurately%20accused%20Khelif%20of,%2C%E2%80%9D%20she%20wrote%20on%20X.

    “The smirk of a male who knows he’s protected by a misogynist sporting establishment enjoying the distress of a woman he’s just punched in the head, and whose life’s ambition he’s just shattered,” she wrote on X. 

    JK knew Khelif would get alot of online hate from tweet. It was incendiary language only based on disputed statements by the IBA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,644 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    are you hard of reading, like you like to tell others:

    “Hmmmz.…. Khelif is not suing for defamation so whether she takes any test or the results get released are m00t. She is suing for cyberbullying and unless you had blinkers on, it's patently clear that JK, along with Lord Elon and Logal Paul among others, brought an onslaught of hate and bullying down upon Khelif.”

    🤡

    It’s very clear you and squirrel have not read the lawsuit that you wish to poke holes in. If you have great, share it so the thread can read directly from it and move on. 😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Which relevant statements by the IBA have been disputed and by whom, please?

    As I understand it the test results which found that Khelif has XY chromosomes and functioning testicles have not been disputed, even by Khelif's own team (their own expert gave an interview where he explained how he'd advised them, in light of those results, to start a testosterone reduction treatment, which they did.)

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,171 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Well for one the IOC. What an odd question to ask. If the results were undisputed we would see lawsuits from the various boxers who had lost to the two boxers in question (the other boxer seems to be forgotten about for some reason) looking to have the results struck out and the silver medallists to get the gold. This however has not happened.

    The facts of the case for both boxers is that the allegations against are still disputed/ unproven. No matter what Jk Rowling says about one for them being male.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No, the IOC haven't disputed the results. They have simply said that for them, a passport with F on it is enough for them.

    Not the same thing.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    I'd assumed he'd read it thoroughly and that was the basis of the accusation - now it appears not, how awfully odd!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    Google Azalia Amineva. No conspiracy. Russians run the IBA and got the hump she was beaten by the Algerian.

    We'll see how this unfolds. There is nothing definitive about this in the public arena that I've seen. Her father seems to think she's a woman, so there's that.

    No argument from me about the integrity of women's sport



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,171 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    The ioc called the tests flawed and couldn't be engaged with.

    It is a fact that the allegations against both boxers are unproven so I do see a good chance the jk Rowling will be done for cyberbullying. Can't keep calling females males when they are only based on unproven allegations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,644 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What accusation?

    she’s suing so read her lawsuit maybe?

    Not an accusation. It's an accusation of yours that the lawsuit is meritless however you've supplied to evidence to support that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    No this isn't correct. In fact it was deliberate misinformation from activists. You need to read the actual timeline of events. Here for instance:

    Here's the relevant part:

    9. "The IBA only disqualified L & K because they beat Russian boxers at the 2023 championships!"

    No they did not. Khelif beat Thailand's Janjaem Suwannapheng and was set to compete against China's Yang Liu for gold in the Welterweight category.

    Lin beat Bulgaria's Svetlana Kamenova Staneva for bronze in the Featherweight category.

    They were scheduled to fight no Russian boxers in either one of their categories, and only one Russian boxer won a gold medal in the entire championship (Anastasiia Demurchian, Light Middleweight).

    India won the most gold medals (4) at the 2023 Women's Championship. China won the most medals overall (7). Kazakhstan won the second most medals overall (6). Russia only won 3 medals at the championship.

    Also worth noting that another Taiwanese boxer, Huang Hsiao-wen, won gold in the Bantamweight category. So for all the Taiwanese mouthpieces claiming Lin's disqualification was just "discrimination against Taiwan"... lol no.

    Added: There appears to now be (another) narrative that is being manufactured in real time - that Khelif was somehow simply being “punished” for beating a Russian boxer in the 2023 championships.

    Note how the AP frames this. They make it seem as though Khelif was disqualified after beating Amineva. In reality, the AP had to go back TWO MATCHES to find where Khelif had fought a Russian. After besting Amineva, Khelif went on to beat Uzbekistan’s Navbakhor Khamidova, and then Thailand’s Janjaem Suwannapheng. Khelif was disqualified just before facing off against China’s Yang Liu.

    No Russian advanced to the finals of this match. The Russian boxer didn’t even come close to it. Disqualifying Khelif wouldn’t have advanced the Russian boxer to a favourable position.

    Further, multiple other boxers very easily beat Russian opponents and advanced to win gold without any such problems. Such as Morocco’s Khadija El-Mardi in the heavyweight, who directly beat Russia’s Diana Pyatak for a spot in the gold match that she would ultimately win.

    Other Russian boxers were left in the dust in other categories where they didn’t even end up placing at all. Yet no other boxers were “punished” for directly beating these Russian competitors.

    It also doesn’t mesh for Lin Yu-Ting, who never matched against a single Russian boxer.

    And I will add: Who has more motivation to lie here? And in the answer to that question you will find the truth.

    The IBA and @umarkremlev have none. There is literally not a single thing they lost or gained by disqualifying Lin and Khelif. There is not a single benefit for them wading into this fight. In fact, it will only get worse for them as they continue to be derided and abused on an international scale.

    The IOC, however, has A LOT at stake right now. The legitimacy of their already embarrassing Paris performance. Their decision to abolish sex-testing. Their decision to not do proper gender tests in one of the most dangerous contact sports. Potential lawsuits from female athletes. Their relationships with two country’s national olympic committees and potential lawsuits from them, too. And that is before we even get to politics of gender ideology itself.

    I understand Lin and Khelif are not transgender, of course, but gender ideology is still a factor here as the refusal of the IOC to reinstitute sex testing is 100% the result of their desire to avoid accusations of bigotry. 

    TL,DR: Other Russians were beaten by other female boxers but none of those boxers were accused of being male, and even Khelif's disqualification did not make any difference to the Russian boxer (Azalia Amineva) anyway, as she went on to be beaten by other boxers. None of whom were accused of being male.

    HTH

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    @volchitsa You're not allowed bring receipts 😀



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is irrelevant if the results are undisputed or not, under IOC qualification rules the athletes were perfectly entitled to compete anyway - so there is nothing to take legal action over.

    I still don't particularly trust the IBA and think the whole affair has been a poorly handled mess, but the general point is that the IOC qualification rules are absurd, not that the athletes didn't abide by them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,171 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I guess it is has moved beyond just the sporting world. We have people calling a female a male based on those sporting results that are under dispute. People who profess to support the rights of females. Will be interesting to see where the two boxers go from here and where the legal action against Jk Rowling and others goes. I presume they cant compete in IBA events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Do the new rules allow me to thank this more than once? 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Caster Semenya's father seemed to think Caster is a woman. Caster is male. Mistakes can be made at birth when there are DSDs, it is very difficult and unfortunate, not done intentionally, but by puberty is patently obvious that female was the wrong choice. Choosing to continue with the falsehood benefits nobody. No advantage of that male puberty should be intentionally used to cheat and hurt women in sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    The wrong receipts though

    "Those same IOC and USA Boxing officials point out the women were disqualified without warning three days after Khelif beat undefeated Russian boxer Azalia Amineva at the world championships. Khelif’s disqualification wiped away the only blemish on the record of Amineva, who remains unbeaten."

    Volchitsa is here for the propaganda



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    And you can point to documentation that proves Khelif's father doesn't know a female child from a male child?

    Claims without any evidence are opinions

    I have no evidence either but the IOC does and they were happy enough.

    No DNA test will be definitive one way or the other. Those here claiming it will are spoofing.

    Remarkable though you would project another case - Caster Semenya - onto this one.

    Two entirely different humans and you;v e decided they;re the same with zero evidence.

    Daft.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Do you think it is scientifically possible to identify whether a person is male sex or female sex?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 482 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    Ridiculous question.

    Show me test results that prove Khelif is a man please.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭Enduro


    It's a simple question. Do you think your evasiveness makes for a convincing argument? You are rejecting the possibility that DNA could identify whether someone is male sex or female sex.

    Do you think it is scientifically possible to identify whether a person is male sex or female sex?



Advertisement