ECJ upholds commission decision on apple tax case

Facilitating a tax rate as low as 0.005% in 2014 to the worlds biggest company is not a good look.

Nah, tell them to feck off, we're putting it into our strategic investment funds, happy that we showed Apple we are pro big business and defend them to the death, yet we still get the money.

That money will erect a few nice bike sheds for us.

Do you know how Ireland's bread is buttered or are you just happy for the country, which I believe you don't even live in, to go back to a poverty stricken hellhole because it makes you feel morally pure.

I don't think so. The court has ruled expressly that this tax is due to Ireland. If France (or anyone else) wanted to argue that that some or all of the tax was due to them, they would have needed to intervene in the case to make that argument before the final judgment was handed down.

That's the thing about final judgments. They're final.

There will be problems resulting from this, but other governments demanding tax revenue is not one of them. The main issue is that this underlines that the Commission can put limits on what IRL can do by way of attracting inward investment through favourable tax treatment. (We can still do this — just not quite as freely as we thought we could.) And that may adversely affect our comparative advantage when it comes to atracting inward investment.

The actual decision in this case affects the particular tax structure that was used by Apple, and so far as I know that is unique — no other company uses it. So this decision, in itself, doesn't affect the tax treatment of anybody but Apple. But there may be a feeling that the Commission will now be emboldened to scrutinise and possibly challenge other, um, ingenious tax arrangements. So there might be a general loss of confidence — the shine might come off tax-based investment incentives in general.

Of course that wouldn't be something that would just affect Ireland — other member states use tax policy to attract investment. But precisely because Ireland has been so successful at attracting investment, such a development would pose a relatively greater problem for Ireland than for most other member states.

This is the best outcome for Ireland as a whole. We showed companies around the world we will stand up to the EU, and we get to keep the money.

I started a new job in 2010 and got sent to Germany for the 3 day onboarding. Joining at the same time was the new European CFO who was from the Cork office, and he gave a presentation about Irelands role in the company and subtly said that one of the reasons that Ireland was the European headquarters, despite actually only employing about 10 staff in Ireland was due to the attractive tax rates, and he said if that changed, then they would most likely be moving to Switzerland. Well its nearly 15 years later and they are still in the same place.

The money should be used to pay down the national debt or invested in a sovereign wealth fund.

Today is an interesting day though, the State fought extremely hard to not keep this money because at its heart it is about tax sovereignty. If we are being honest, Irelands economic advantage is almost entirely as a result of tax policy, but if that is neutered then what have we left?

I personally think this is the beginning of the end of the EU love-in that has completely dominated official circles for the last 20 or so years.

As i and others posted above, we want the money, but we have to play the "we don't want the tax" card for large FDI so they keep giving us the money!

It's about more than that. When revenue gives a tax judgement there needs to be a certain finality about it so everyone can move forward. This judgement from the ECJ means that any other company that has an agreed tax strategy could find itself liable for huge back taxes. Apple is OK, it can pay it.

Strategically, I think it was a mistake for the commission to go after Ireland here as they risk at least partially loosing a political class that they had completely captured.

The other thing this judgement shows is the complete ridiculousness of the European legal system, where a higher court has said no, the previous judgement was completely wrong. Just goes to show how much law is actually arbitrary.

Just keep appealing until you get the decision you want....sorry "lower court" you didnt get the right answer...try again...

Farce...

An Educated English speaking populance with access to the EU is a big draw for many big companies.

Of course the tax situation is likely bigger draw, but we don’t have nothing to offer other than that.

Very embarrassing for Ireland. The government was attempting to maintain our tax haven status.

If the debate goes well tonight for Harris your hope is goosed

Brilliant….

What mess would that be?

there’s no basis supporting that in the decision whatsoever. It determined that the profits related to the intellectual property which should be allocated to the Irish branches rather than the thinly resourced head office - at no point has any serious suggestion been made that authority exists to reallocate it to the market jurisdictions. If there was, the implications would go far beyond Apple.

I know it is and when you think about it, it's fundamentally ridiculous. What we are saying is that although educated and learned, judges at lower courts judgement cannot be trusted to come to the correct conclusions that we must have more educated and learned judges over them who we have deemed cannot err and therefore their judgement is absolute. It's actually absurd.

The contrast that with criminal judgement. Once a verdict is delivered by 12 lay jury members, that verdict is absolute and cannot be appealed unless there is some change in the facts. And that can be after another 12 have heard the same evidence and cannot determine a verdict.

Corporate taxation in the EU is a game of hide and seek. Levying higher taxes on MNCs but giving most of it back in incentives, "legal" tax breaks and magic bean grants. It's a joke.

Keep the money and spend it before Sinn Fein get in and spend 13 billion in social welfare increases in the first year.

Think of it… The Steve Jobs Luas line. The Galway Apple Ring road. The iTunes concert hall.

Maybe just take the money and use it to fix any child who is waiting on an urgent operation?

Or use it to pay for more houses?

Or use it to build/ fix a few roads?

Or use it to better some sporting facilities?

Or use it to reduce our carbon footprint?

There is loads to do with it, should we decide to spend it. Let it be used for good deeds and I'm sure the Government and Apple can rest easy.

Devastating news for FF and FG.