Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

I think you're confusing @volchitsa with another poster on this thread

Where are these tests? Have you seen them? The results? The criteria used?

Why are you taking the word of the IBA?

Why would anyone take the word of the IBA when it is clearly corrupt and dominated by a Russian oligarch?

That is a fact. Kremlev has annexed the IBA. Nobody disputes this. He is a close friend of Putin. Nobody disputes this.

Amineva is a celebrity, Kremlev's friend and a Russian pin-up and she lost her unbeaten record to Khelif, a fact you tried to obscure in my first interaction with you.

Kremlev is engaged in propaganda. Anyone who parrots IBA talking points is the same

The detail of these results, as I'm sure you know really, are covered by confidentiality laws.

But the reason I have confidence in them - well, two reasons - is

1. because the boxers concerned had the option of appealing them to CAS which is completely independent.

If they don't appeal within the stated time limt, then legally they are accepting those results as valid themselves. That's what they did, so why would I call them liars?

One chose not to appeal at all, the other began an appeal but then withdrew it before getting to the point of sending the results to CAS for review.

Of course, if they had appealed, CAS' judgment would have meant that we would know the detail of their test results, because they would figure in the report.

So the logical conclusion is that the results showed that they had XY chromosomes and male levels of testosterone, and preferred that not to come out publicly as happened when Caster Sememnya appealed against DQ from athletics for similar reasons.

and also because:

2) a member of Khelif's own team has confirmed that the chromosome results were unfavourable and said that he advised the team to start Khelif on testosterone reduction treatment as a consequence.

Why on earth would he have done that if there was any reason to think the results were wrong?

The study you linked to though doesn’t support your claim. It specifically cautions against the “correlation = causation” fallacy in discussing it’s limitations:

The major limitation is that due to the observational retrospective design of our study, the data do not allow us to test the directionality of the relationship between ACEs and health impairments. While the results strongly indicate that being TGD in a heteronormative society leads to victimization, which in turn has detrimental effects on mental health, our data do not allow a causal interpretation of this relationship. Future studies should use methods that can test for causality. A study with international participation, especially from countries with different acceptance levels of gender incongruence, would be of particular interest here. Additionally, the retrospective assessment of ACEs has to be considered a limitation. A recent meta-analysis found only limited agreement between retrospective and prospective reports of ACEs [55]. While the authors of the meta-analysis argue that retrospective assessment may be more sensitive for ACEs than prospective measures, retrospectively reported exposure is always prone to memory bias. In general, researchers assume that retrospective self-reporting leads to an underestimation of child maltreatment.

There are a few studies with much larger sample sizes than the one you linked to, but they too have the same limitation in that they are retrospective, and self-selecting. It just isn’t possible to test for a causal relationship between sexual abuse in childhood and sexual orientation or gender dysphoria in later life. John Money attempted it in furtherance of his bullshìt hypothesis. We now know how that worked out for his patients.

You made the original claim, but I don’t attribute the claim solely to you at all, it’s been doing the rounds for donkeys - metaphorically throwing everything but the kitchen sink at an idea by way of explanation. It’s backwards rationalisation, confirmation bias, nothing more.

Men arguing for men to be allowed compete in women's sports will never not be funny to me. A few lads in here making absolute wallys out of themselves.😆

The irony of you quoting John Money who is basically the inventor of gender theory, and was a child sex abuser, as an example of poor practice does not escape me.

Your perception as irony of me giving an example of an individual who proferred bullshìt hypotheses and then tried to make the evidence fit the hypothesis, escapes me, to be honest. There’s no irony there - I’ve never agreed with gender theory, I think it’s nonsense. But that’s beside the point, which is that there is no association between sexual abuse by adults in childhood, and gender dysphoria (it’s a clinical diagnosis, so I’ll use the correct terminology which refers to the clinical diagnosis).

I wasn't claiming that that one study was the incontrovertible proof that sex abuse causes gender dysphoria - I don't expect there is a single study anywhere that does so.

I know you weren’t, but there are studies which do make that claim, and I have no wish to make you any more aware of them because they’re bullshìt - perpetuated by “pray the gay away” types and researchers looking to make a name for themselves. The study you did provide however, in support of your claim, didn’t support your claim, and not only that but cautioned against using the research to justify those sorts of claims. I’ll be honest - I’d already read it before you presented it, that’s how I knew it was in there. You’d be forgiven for thinking I went looking for it if I hadn’t told you I knew it was there already - that’s how confirmation bias works.

However I was pointing out that calling such a comment "homophobic" (or indeed transphobic) is a misunderstanding of what the studies do show.

But you showed the study after the comment was made, and then the study you did show, didn’t support your claim. I don’t want to say it was pointless, information is great, but attempting to use the study you provided to support your claim was, well, y’know…

Because there is a very strong correlation, and moreover since there is no theory of child psychology that attempts to explain gender dysphoria as being some sort of inherent "wrong body" concept, that suggests that it is caused by other factors, such as, ehh, sex abuse or social unease associated with autism.

It doesn’t suggest anything, and it definitely doesn’t suggest that anyone can pull whatever they like out of wherever they like and attribute gender dysphoria or sexual orientation to that particular cause by way of an explanation which makes perfect sense to them, ignoring the fact that among people who would fit those criteria, the number of people who are homosexual or transgender, is still minuscule, so minuscule as to attempt to attribute homosexuality or gender dysphoria to them has as much legitimacy as claiming Beyoncé makes them do it:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/08/gop-governor-candidate-says-beyonce-is-a-puppet-of-beelzebub-her-music-is-satanic-chants/

I know you’re atheist, but being familiar with religiously inspired bullshìt I figured you’d get the point. I still wouldn’t call that irony, because like I said I don’t attribute the claim solely to you, it’s just that it’s so old now it’s become detached from its origins. My mother told me never to ask a woman her age, because it’s rude, but I figure you weren’t born in the wrong era, that you’re not at least familiar with Beyoncé 😂

I think there was commentary earlier about Quinn - Canadian footballer, on the women's National team - being transgender male, but competing in a sport that aligns with their sex, instead of the mens team.

I was led to believe that their gender expression was Non Binary. And, other than that, dropping their first name just to be known as simply their surname.

In which case, as far as representing the womens sport, nothing to see here

Hilariously, here's how nonbinary the nonbinaries are:

Do you believe any old thing you read on Twitter and then pass it off as reality?

So now you're backtracking it's just a bit of humor and not an actual real claim. Carry on.

No, no that’s not my go-to, as I explained to volchista above:

Your perception as irony of me giving an example of an individual who proferred bullshìt hypotheses and then tried to make the evidence fit the hypothesis, escapes me, to be honest. There’s no irony there - I’ve never agreed with gender theory, I think it’s nonsense. But that’s beside the point, which is that there is no association between sexual abuse by adults in childhood, and gender dysphoria (it’s a clinical diagnosis, so I’ll use the correct terminology which refers to the clinical diagnosis).

Seeing as this is a discussion on transgender athletes in sports though, the spectre of John Money’s influence was evident too in the fact that he was the world renowned scientist and expert who provided an affidavit, along with Billie Jean King, in the case of Renee Richards v USTA and Others:

Dr. Money's professional conclusion, based on 26 years of professional experience as a psychoendocrinologist, is that a person such as Dr. Renee Richards should be classified as female and for anyone in the medical or legal field to find otherwise is completely unjustified. Dr. Money also believes that Dr. Richards will have no unfair advantage when competing against other women. He says that her muscle development, weight, height and physique fit within the female norm. 

Measured by all the factors, including chromosomal structure, Dr. Money asserts that Dr. Richards should be classified as female and that would be a widely held conclusion of medicine today.

https://casetext.com/case/richards-v-us-tennis-assn

Bear in mind this was 1977. What is known of him now, was not known of him then, so when you’re evaluating anyone’s opinion and lending it weight it doesn’t deserve solely on the basis of their credentials alone, I wouldn’t do that, because invariably more often than not, it comes back to haunt you:

But Robinson has built his brand on judging, more than any politician I’ve seen in my two decades covering politics in North Carolina. Women, liberals, public school teachers, atheists, LGBTQ+ people, Jewish people, poor people — few have been spared Robinson’s righteous wrath. God calls men, not women, to lead, he says. LGBTQ+ people are “demonic.” They’re “filth,” they’re “maggots.” Women get abortions because they couldn’t keep their “skirt down.” Some folks out there “need killing.” 

The problem with judging so loudly and so often is you invite the same for yourself. A man who gives no grace to others can’t expect it for himself.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/mark-robinson-north-carolina-scandal-trump-rcna169743

Do you have a literacy problem? Do you understand what "nobody" means when you use that word. Do you understand that if you declare that "nobody wants to open that can of worms", that if absolutely ANYBODY has no issue with opening that can of worms then you are wrong. Trying to argue otherwise just highlights your illiteracy.

Or are we to take you as a Donald Trump style ranter who needs special interpretation of everything he says? So that nothing you say is to be taken literally. Does it require MAGA fans to interpret the underlying meaning of what you really mean, as opposed to what you actually said?

This literacy issue would be consistent with your assertion that Transgender people don't exist, when you declared that Gender identity is an immutable characteristic.

You do realise that admitting you made a simple mistake is a lot more mature than doubling down on the mistake and defending it for all your worth?

How many men do you imagine would actually willingly submit themselves for sex testing if it were a requirement the same as women? You wouldn’t be long being told to take a running jump, and the consolation that they are now eligible to compete in the women’s events would mean absolutely nothing - they wouldn’t want to, because they wouldn’t even want the results of the test being leaked to the media, never mind becoming public knowledge as tends to happen ever so accidentally when it happens to women.

That's absolutely hilarious. Tell us you know nothing about male sports jocks without telling us that you know nothing about male sports jocks! I find it hard to think of a male team sport where there wouldn't be a stampede of over-confident self-identified alpha males rushing to prove their masculinity by "aceing" their sex-test. You really are determined to prove how little clue you have.

Indeed, and in all the road races I competed in or followed over the years, the fastest time was always set by a man, hence the reason men would have no objection if in fact there was only one open list of prizes, but the same wouldn't be true for women.