2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

Paid more than all but 3 drivers. Mad when you think about it. Stroll flinging money around.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1

Yeah its the 2 drivers AND the 3 highest paid employees.

https://www.globalsportsadvocates.com/blog/understanding-the-f1-cost-cap.cfm

Several significant expenses are exempt from the cost cap, including:

• Driver salaries
• Compensation for the three highest-paid staff members
• Travel expenses
• Marketing expenditures
• Property and legal costs
• Entry and license fees
• Activities unrelated to F1 or road cars
• Parental and sick leave payments
• Employee bonuses and staff medical benefits

The way I see it is that Norris proved that he is not a team player in Hungary and damaged the team's trust in him. This doesn't just impact the drivers but all of the engineers on the other side of the garage, all of the people back at the factory who poured blood sweat and tears into getting upgrade packages ready, when they see Lando throwing their hard work back in their faces out of selfishness it can really dampen morale and have a long term impact.

Oscar on the other hand has been very straightforward to work with, he complied with team orders without complaint in Australia for example, and on top of that he's rapidly improving from a place of inexperience and increasingly looking like the future of the team - he's the highest points scorer on the grid over the last 8 races, ahead of both Lando and Max.

So they could throw their full weight behind Norris, someone who's shown he can't be trusted when the favour needs to be returned, on the very slim chance he manages to catch Max and doesn't continue to keep throwing away good results with poor first lap performances, or they can let them race leaving a healthier atmosphere in the team. Ultimately this is the bigger picture they need to look at. Sometimes a few extra points here and there isn't worth creating a toxic atmosphere going forward into next season when they will surely have a very strong chance at fighting for the championship from the start.

Not saying you're alone in thinking it, but you've already said you prefer Piastri to Norris so I can understand why you're saying it

Norris is 44 points ahead of Piastri in the Drivers championship, so I can see why they're saying he should be prioritised. I can't see anyone other than Max winning the drivers championship given the reliability the Red Bull has shown. They're definitely in the running for the Constructors championship, though, especially if Perez keeps up his current form.

Unsure how Norris has showed he's 'not a team player' and 'damaged the teams trust in him' or 'shown he can't be trusted when the favour needs to be returned' when he let Oscar through? Yes, he took longer than the team would've liked and yes he did moan about it on the team radio, but he's a racing driver, he wants to win as I'm sure every other driver on the grid do. The two seem to get on very well so it doesn't seem to have damaged their relationship either.

It’s like you didn’t watch it unfold and just saw the result that they switched places. Lando most certainly undermined the team.

WOnder if Mark Webber has a clause in Piastri's contract about this. Seems odd to not push Lando now as he does see. The more likely one to catch Max

I think McLaren will win the constructors title

If Lando wants to win a championship, he has to deserve it.

He didn't deserve to win Hungary, and he didn't deserve to be in front in Monza. Simple as that.

Lando would deserve it. He’s scored more points than Piastri this season and put himself in a position to challenge for the title. Piastri didn’t. F1 is a team game and isn’t purely individual. Max didn’t beat Lewis the first time without Perez.

What’s the point of a teammate if they don’t help you at this stage of the championship???

Thought Straw and the other guy made it a good debate. Buxton added little nuance beyond what he had said in the post race interview plus a few references to F1 history to tie in with his book.

Agreed with the conclusion though. Despite Norris not having done enough this season to have earned it, he is in the better position mathematically. Give him priority for the next couple of races (potentially incentivize Piastri & make it known Norris has priority). If Norris blows more chances, go back to how it was.

We are all assuming that the message to lando in Hungary was Oscar would move over for him but it was he’ll help you. Didn’t he let him take the first pit stop each time which is helping him. Lando is one dnf to be out of championship. How many points has lando lost due to his terrible starts

British media will be unbearable this weekend like the soccer last weekend about someone singing the national anthem. Crofty and Buxton have lost the run of themselves

Piastri was the lead car in the race, so Piastri should have had the option to box before Lando. Yet both times Lando was boxed first. That is Piastri being the team player. Without that, not only is Lando not winning the race, he's probably finishing behind Hamilton. (The undercut is massive at Hungary.)

Also, if the lead car wasn't a McLaren, Lando still wouldn't have won. That car would have pitted before Lando to cover him off.

The argument isn't black and white. Team-mates can help (and Piastri did), but that doesn't mean Lando deserved it.

If Piastri was to help Norris out by not attacking and/or gifting him positions for the rest of the season it's likely to have a direct impact in maybe half the races? Assuming that in the rest it's not possible (eg they are not racing alongside each other, other drivers are too close). Is 4 races (or possibly more) of 1 driver handing a position to another too many for that other driver to be deemed the world champion?

I know other drivers have had direct help (Schumacher had it in his contract sure) but direct assistance like the media has been going on about being the difference between winning and losing the championship is different. If it happens in 1 or 2 races it's understandable, but is there a ceiling before it becomes wrong?

Newey (unsurprisingly) joins Aston Martin as 'Managing Technical Partner'

Link

Well I think you can argue that Max deserved to have Red Bull prioritise his races ahead of Checo as he got himself into a great position for the championship and was guaranteed to beat his teammate in the final standings. And not once did that mean taking a race win away from Perez.

Lando, IMO, hasn’t done that. Ability wise there is very little between himself and Piastri, they could both conceivably win multiple races before the end of the season, and I think it’s a massive thing to ask a driver to give up a race win for a teammate. Race wins are so rare for most drivers. Potentially giving up more than one so that your teammate might win a wdc is a huge ask.

Also, he hasn’t shown enough consistency to make his case that they should risk the team dynamic going all in on him. His starts are dreadful and he needs to show he can take maximum points regularly to be worth the risk at all.

Interesting that he’s a partner. I wonder did old man Stroll give him shares in AM as part of the deal? But it wasn’t about money according to Eddie Jordan….

Whether you think he deserves it is irrelevant. If the team want to maximise their results this season they need to start issuing team orders. If they aren’t interested in maximising their results then why even bother competing in the first place. Nonsense phrases like “papaya rules” just makes them a laughing stock.

I think you're making very different points to the original poster. If Piastri handed Lando the win and Lando went on to win the WDC, he would have earned the title and deserved it. You're going off on a completely different point (one I disagree with but outside the scope of what I replied too and what I've said).

Lando, IMO, hasn’t done that. Ability wise there is very little between himself and Piastri

44 points in the difference. Same car.

Also, he hasn’t shown enough consistency to make his case that they should risk the team dynamic going all in on him.

What team dynamic? There is none. There is no team. They've made that clear. There's 8 races left, of course you pick the guy who has a credible chance of winning the WDC and not say "we've two equal drivers". They don't. One has the potential to win. The other doesn't.

Neither do with their current strategy which is stupid.

Dream team imo. Stroll catches a lot of flack but you couldn’t say he isn’t putting his money where his mouth is. I’d imagine Newey will be as much creative freedom as he wants. It will be interesting to see what Alonso does now. I think he will be gone after 2025

They are separate. There’s Aston Martin F1 and Aston Martin Lagonda that builds the road cars. Shares in AML are not exactly a hot commodity at the moment so I’m guessing Newey got a slice of the F1 team.

It’s almost like Lawrence Stroll read Newey’s book and did the opposite of what Frank Williams did.

Stroll is obviously sticking his oar in and choosing the driver. Otherwise Lance would be out if there. It's reasonable to assume he's interfering in ways that are best for him personally, but not best for the team. How far he's willing to go to interfere is the question.

If he's willing to interfere with car design, then he's a gobshyte.

It's possible but they'd need such a dominant car for that to happen.

Perez finished second in one of the last 3 years, when Red Bull was dominant. Perez is a decent average driver. Stroll is below average. He'd probably need a car as dominant as the mclaren 1998 or Mercedes mid-2010s. It's possible, but unlikely.

They'd need a car so dominant that most other drivers would win the championship handily, before Stroll could compete.

It will be interesting to see who stroll replaces Alonso with when he eventually calls it a day, will he go big for Norris or piastri for example?

Verstappen? He's got the Honda, he's got Newey, why not complete the set.

Constructors is a certainty surely.

It was interesting to hear Newey say yesterday that some of the critical design features on the redbull for the last 3 years are not yet understood by the other teams.