Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

Wow, that is some display of mental gymnastics!!

I am imploring, pleading with carriers to schedule flights and routes with the regional airports.

The capacity and demand is there.

Therefore it is the carriers, not the travelling public, who show contempt if they decide to up sticks and leave the Irish market because they cannot fly from DUB.

Throwing the toys out of the pram comes to mind…

So Ryanair and Minister Lawless from DoT had a meeting this morning, looks like he wants Ryanair to rename 'Shannon' to 'Dublin(Shannon)' and presumably hope nobody notices they actually end up on the far side of the country 230km away from their actual destination.

"Mr Lawless said another possible interim solution to the problem would be to push some traffic to regional airports, away from Dublin.

"We have no cap on Shannon, we have no cap on Cork, we have no cap on Knock, we have no cap on other regional airports," he said.

"I've suggested to Ryanair and I will suggest to the other airlines that they should explore, in the hiatus while Dublin Airport is at or reaching the cap, that they should explore increasing connections to the other airports."

He added that there is no better placed airline than Ryanair to market outlying airports as a destination.

"I've flown to Paris Beauvais with Ryanair. I've flown to Venice Treviso with Ryanair. Why can't I fly to Dublin/Shannon with Ryanair?" the minister claimed."

The 'slight' difference there is Beauvais is about 90km away from Paris city centre and Treviso is about 40km from Venice, versus the 230km between Shannon and Dublin.

I see some on the thread mention 'emissions' as a good reason for a passenger cap. How exactly is forcing 1000s of passengers to overfly their desired destination by 100s of km in the wrong direction and then forcing them to backtrack 100s more kms on another form of transport to get back to where they actually want to go, creating millions of unnecessary kms traveled, going to help with emissions or the climate issues?

Could buy 6 Hospitals for that price! 😁

What do you mean 'allowed'? Allowed by who? Remember there are over 600 people working in the Department of Transport and you can be sure many of them know more about aviation than the 'experts' on here and who's job it is to take a holistic approach to transport matters, and not just profits.

I wouldn't be too sure about that 🤣🤣🤣

Ireland, the only country in the world that Builds makes a success and then stops all that success.

You couldn't make this crap up.

Every country in the world wants growth. Airports being built to create capacity. In Ireland we build a second runway, revamp the airport and then try to stop the extra passenger numbers as it's going too well.

The level of stupidity of politicians is amazing.

Another cabbage brained politician, how do these morons get elected

Lawless is another one of these politicians who makes out he pushed this and that for decades and photographs to show us all when it opens. MOL knew he was just coming to humour him and well prepared for him.

The carriers are showing contempt for the passengers. Not the other way round.

Suprised Someone in ABP or FCC hasn't taken a backhander yet or maybe they have.

It’s completely unacceptable that An Bord Pleanala have been sitting on this appeal for 25 month and there’s no questions being asked. There is absolutely no justification for that. Tom O’Leary stated last week he expected a decision on this last Friday or early this week. Another week has nearly passed and still no sign of a decision.

Did you need an Arts degree for that? 😜 Only joking. As I said before, this isn't just about the airport - the DOT need to take a holistic view.

he is the minister for transport and has been ineffective, that’s not an obsession, it’s a fair observation. He has done nothing constructive or positive for transport in Ireland, nothing for the aviation industry or the travelling public just as predicted. He’s had the job about 4 years and ? What has he achieved and accomplished ?
He’s at odds with every major stakeholder in the aviation industry, airlines, airport operators and travelling public. All of those stakeholder’s have denounced publicly his actions and inactions…He’s completely myopic in his outlooks and decision making…

You can’t support mass immigration as he does, and expect the Irish public and others coming here to travel less and use airlines / airports less. That doesn’t compute….The demand will increase yet he wants less. There is a passenger cap on Dublin airport yet Ryan has repeatedly said he wouldn’t / couldn’t intervene… However yesterday Junior Minister for Transport James Lawless called the cap ‘antiquated’ and is getting together with stakeholders to discuss and try and actively change it…. Eamonn Ryan…on the same question..”sorry, won’t do anything “…

People get obsessed, hot under the collar when other people like Ryan are in a job they are not qualified to hold and have zero intent to make things better and instead deal in glib off the cuff politicking media remarks instead of ‘doing’ things to help the industry and travelling public, he’s done zero.

Ultimately what’s probably required now or soon in the future….a second small Dublin airport….to accommodate further population growth and DUB close to capacity … All very well having a second runway but when you have nowhere to park the extra aircraft and no terminal space to accommodate resources demanded by airlines, handling agents and the public…

Whether we like it or not, ABP and FCC are merely implementing the law of the land as it stands.

I’m in no way in favour of the cap, it’s utterly ludicrous, but daa knew about it and did nothing to resolve it when they should have done so, which was about seven or eight years ago when they could see the trajectory that the airport was travelling along in terms of passenger numbers.

Instead they only made the planning applications very late in the day and seem to have left major parts of them with significant omissions of detail based on the response for more information from the planners.

I would argue that it is up to the lawmakers in the Oireachtas to make changes to those laws, where necessary, and change the planning process for major infrastructure, so that we can progress them within reasonable timeframes, while still respecting the Constitution of this country and the rights that it guarantees the citizens.

And is certainly up to daa to get their act in order and start applying for things much earlier and more importantly to get the applications right.

Ultimately I suspect a solution will be found over the coming months, as it is not in the State’s interests for the cap to perpetuate, but the wheels of the State rarely move quickly.

450,000 seats with one airline! Looks noticeable to me!

Goes to show though, if there's a will there's a way! Positive move in general.

Once the cap is lifted all that traffic that has "moved" to other regional airports will come back within one seasonal schedule... fact.

So if they took major infrastructural projects away from the current planning authorities, who would assess and decide on them? ABP? They have turned out not to be much faster and they can also say "no" as well as "yes".

The cap is not "the law of land", it is a planning condition imposed by FCC. FCC are not "merely implementing" it, they dreamt it up, plucked the figure out of their arse, imposed it then walked away and insist that any issues caused by it are for daa to solve.

Saying "it is up to the lawmakers in the Oireachtas to make changes to those laws" isn't relevant to the cap. The legislation underpinning the cap isn't the issue and the cap can be removed/altered without changes to legislation. Planning permissions are changed, superceded or expire all the time. You can also apply to change or remove a condition(s) to a planning approval without impacting any other part of it.

The condition relating to the cap needs to be struck out, that is the solution here. I'd say that condition would be defeated if challenged in court. There is the wider EU element which Kenny Jacob referred to but also, it is completely arbitrary. Is there any calculation for how they arrived at that number? Any updating based on changes in the transport infrastructure over the past 17 years (M50 upgrades, M1 widening, BusConnects, etc.)? I seriously doubt such a restrictive condition with no defined rationale or ongoing review methodology would stand up if challenged in court.

Breaches of planning law are generally a criminal offense. If the cap condition could be defeated in court, why hasn't this avenue been pursued in all the years it's been around?

Right now the cap is the law of the land, as it is part of a planning decision granted years ago

It remains the law unless challenged in the courts, or an application made to change it.

The daa have mucked up royally here. They knew the planning conditions and did nothing to try and change it when they ought to have done, which was seven or eight years ago.

Why didn’t they challenge it at the time?

There is a process to go through as the law stands, and that’s what the daa need to follow.

Blaming everyone else isn’t the solution here, and frankly going around ranting about the Minister, planning officials, etc. as some are isn’t going to solve this - it will be solved by talks between all the parties outside of the media glare.

My comment about the Oireachtas was aimed mainly at moving planning approval for critical infrastructure projects away from local authorities and into a specialist entity that takes the national perspective into account.

As to your questions, presumably the planning decision documentation explains the rationale, whatever it was. I’ve made it clear that I don’t agree with the cap but it’s there and daa have to accept the blame for not challenging it sooner.