DART+ (DART Expansion)

D.L.R. · 03-07-2016 3:06pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I thought most of the point of DU was to segregate the DART from Intercity services?

Not really. Apart from the tunnel itself and the 4-track Kildare line, Darts will share track with intercity.

strassenwo!f · 03-07-2016 3:25pm

afatbollix wrote: »

It should be a commuter tunnel only.

In years to come they should build a inter city fast train line cork to Belfast but were years off that yet.

It would certainly make sense for it to be a commuter tunnel only. But while cities like Munich and Frankfurt, both give or take Dublin's size, have had similar cross-city commuter-only tunnels in operation for decades now - and we've seen how very effective they are - the Department of Transport in Ireland seem to be more busy creating offshoots than actually doing something similar themselves.

The Dublin Transportation Office, the National Transport Agency and whatever the f**k it is now.

It's very, very disappointing.

monument · 03-07-2016 9:52pm

strassenwo!f wrote: »

It would certainly make sense for it to be a commuter tunnel only. But while cities like Munich and Frankfurt, both give or take Dublin's size, have had similar cross-city commuter-only tunnels in operation for decades now - and we've seen how very effective they are - the Department of Transport in Ireland seem to be more busy creating offshoots than actually doing something similar themselves.

The Dublin Transportation Office, the National Transport Agency and whatever the f**k it is now.

It's called the National Transport Authority and anybody with half a clue about transport in Ireland should know that after it has had that name for nearly five years now.

The idea and structure of the NTA are similar to the set up in many other countries. And as for the Department of Transport being busy creating offshoots -- how valid is that when the NTA merged the DTO and taxi regulator, and the NRA and RPA were merged... what exact new bodies have the department created recently?

Heartbreak Hank · 04-07-2016 9:10am

nowecant wrote: »

Can anyone tell me was Dart Underground meant to be able to accommodate Intercity trains?

e.g. Belfast - Dublin Docklands - Heuston - Cork

Also, as planning has lapsed is there any way that it can be fast tracked the second time if it was decided to go ahead with it?

Thanks

Posted this previously:

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

From Iarnród Éireann's 2030 Rail Network Strategy Review Final Report October, 2011

"Phase 3: 2020-2025: Electrification of the Core Rail Network

When sufficient growth has occurred and rolling stock replacement is approaching, electrification of Dublin-Galway and Dublin Cork will yield significant returns. This should encompass direct services to Dublin City Centre and Dublin Airport via the DART Underground."

Presumably, this would also allow Cork - Belfast trains if the full Northern Line was electrified also so there would be a national benefit - not just a Dublin-centric one. Granted all that could be hundreds of years away.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/irishrail_28febfinal_part11.pdf

yannakis · 04-07-2016 10:06am

Do we have any indication when the rolling stock replacement is approaching?

D.L.R. · 04-07-2016 11:37am

I see no requirement at all for intercity services through the tunnel, or a Belfast-Cork service. There's no demand for it.

All we need is a simple, reliable transfer for Belfast-Cork passengers and there's a couple of options to achieve that.

Don't see a problem with Commuter services using DU though, by creating say a Portlaoise-Dundalk service, which will really just be a longer distance Dart. The bigger problem is the Northern line remaining two tracks, and that will have to be addressed... one day.

dublinman1990 · 04-07-2016 5:59pm

Putting Diesel commuter trains on the same DART Underground line wouldn't be necessary IMO.

For one thing if a commuter train was going along the DU lines; it probably wouldn't be as fast as the DU because it will slow down it's journey time if there another DART up ahead at another platform. I think the most useful way is to let commuter trains use the PPT to get to Connolly to prevent possible delays on DU. I'd let DU use it's own seperate tunnel without the need for potentially jamming the DU network to a halt by other services when it officially gets completed.

I read from some rail enthusiast magazines, which included reports on developments on Irish Rail every month, they would gotten information that the proposed frequency from IE on DU years ago was one DART U train every 3 minutes or twenty DARTs per hour in either direction. That information came from the same original proposal for DART U on IE's website. If these proposed DART U frequencies were changed well then I'm open all ears as to what they could be if the original proposal wasn't achievable.

If a commuter train was stuck on the DART U line; it would have to be stuck inbetween the DARTs by trying to get through to their destination by being very slow going from station to station or even slower if it was a non-stop service on the DART U line.

I would let the commuter go through the original DART line, let it branch off at a point from Clontarf Road to Docklands station & then use the PPT to get the much quicker journey to say out to Kildare or whatever. Or IE could build a seperate line for commuter trains to Kildare from Howth Junction to Docklands & then use that line to get to the PPT out to Hueston.

LeinsterDub · 08-07-2016 7:25am

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/new-liffey-bridge-put-on-hold-due-to-dart-underground-1.2712750

Some interesting DU news

cgcsb · 08-07-2016 8:45am

15 to 18 months for a review, oh the excitement. I won't get excited until a TBM gets lowered into the ground.

D.L.R. · 08-07-2016 11:33am

Idbatterim · 08-07-2016 2:08pm

15 to 18 months for a review, oh the excitement. I won't get excited until a TBM gets lowered into the ground.

here is my review. Wait till this bloody city grinds to a halt again this autumn / winter with the crap weather, kids back to school, colleges back...

In a way, the longer it is left, the likely the better scheme we will get, seeing as they change their minds every five minutes!!! *

*once we continue steady growth and dont go back to bust town again...

marno21 · 08-07-2016 4:06pm

The then minister for transport Paschal Donohoe said the tunnel element of Dart Underground as currently planned would have cost €3 billion, and the proposal had been drawn up a decade ago when the country was in a very different position regarding growth projections and travel patterns.

Nothing has changed, and nothing will. The city still grinds to a halt every morning & evening, is incredibly reliant in cars, has a disconnected rail network and has no current plans for improvement with growth still happening.

They can either spend the money now, and reap the rewards, or wait and spend the money when the situation becomes out of control

syklops · 08-07-2016 4:13pm

A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but collectively can agree that nothing can be done.

Sums up Irish politics.

I sometimes wish we were a dictatorship.

salmocab · 08-07-2016 5:14pm

syklops wrote: »

A committee is a group of people who individually can do nothing but collectively can agree that nothing can be done.

Sums up Irish politics.

I sometimes wish we were a dictatorship.

A camel is a horse designed by a committee

salmocab · 08-07-2016 5:18pm

The most annoying thing about that article is that it does make sense to ensure the bridge doesn't interfere with the DU but f*** me when will they just come up with a proper plan and stick to it.

Grandeeod · 08-07-2016 5:52pm

If this country was awash with money, DU would still not be built.

murphaph · 08-07-2016 9:15pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

If this country was awash with money, DU would still not be built.

Correct and this spiting of Dublin may really cost us if London based banks decide to avoid Dublin because of its very poor transport links in a post Brexit world. The jobs may stay in London depending on what happens but Dublin will be hard pressed to beat the likes of Amsterdam if a hard Brexit does come to pass.

Ben D Bus · 08-07-2016 9:41pm

murphaph wrote: »

Correct and this spiting of Dublin may really cost us if London based banks decide to avoid Dublin because of its very poor transport links in a post Brexit world. The jobs may stay in London depending on what happens but Dublin will be hard pressed to beat the likes of Amsterdam if a hard Brexit does come to pass.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/after-brexit-finding-a-new-london-for-the-financial-world-to-call-home.html

Funny enough, lack of infrastructure is exactly what will hurt us according to the NYT

Idbatterim · 08-07-2016 10:32pm

Ha the usual! **** infrastructure and again an article raised the cost of housing in Dublin today and its effect on our competitiveness! Relatively small airport mentioned in my times article. Id say a tad under 30 million will use it the year. Ridiculous level of uk connectivity. Very good to continental Europe and North America...

These idiots here will only act, rather might only act. If they are shamed into it. I read earlier there is office accomodation in docklands being planned or built to house 25,000 workers. Accomodation planned in the area will house 5,000. I suppose the other 20,000 will use our class transport system lol!

08-07-2016 10:42pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ha the usual! **** infrastructure and again an article raised the cost of housing in Dublin today and its effect on our competitiveness! Relatively small airport mentioned in my times article. Id say a tad under 30 million will use it the year. Ridiculous level of uk connectivity. Very good to continental Europe and North America...

No problems with the airport,it's connectivity in the city that's the issue.
I used to live in Northampton and frequently had to go to the centre of London as a commuter, a typical journey would be 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours from the house to the desk this covering 50 miles and including a change to the tube and another tube plus 10 minute walk.

The same in Dublin is at best 2 1/2 to 3 hours!

No contest!!!!

Idbatterim · 08-07-2016 10:52pm

They can stuff their finance excuse too. Tax receipts far ahead of forecast... cantvwaitvfir mid term review. I'll laugh if figures and forecast are higher than envisioned when original schemes were proposed and designed. No doubt the original figures and schemes will still have been over engineered :rolleyes:

Grandeeod · 08-07-2016 10:59pm

murphaph wrote: »

Correct and this spiting of Dublin may really cost us if London based banks decide to avoid Dublin because of its very poor transport links in a post Brexit world. The jobs may stay in London depending on what happens but Dublin will be hard pressed to beat the likes of Amsterdam if a hard Brexit does come to pass.

I'm quite confident that our "low tax" approach will eventually run out of steam and we will be left so far behind in terms of infrastructure, that it will matter at some point.

08-07-2016 11:10pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm quite confident that our "low tax" approach will eventually run out of steam and we will be left so far behind in terms of infrastructure, that it will matter at some point.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that the crap transport links haven't put off MNC's who care about the welfare of their staff! But in reality they really don't give a shít as long as the money keeps rolling in!

FACECUTTR · 09-07-2016 12:29am

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

syklops · 09-07-2016 3:00am

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

Building a Luas extension from Brides Glen to Bray or even to Killiney would finally link the green line and the Dart. But that definitely wont happen anytime soon. The Luas is too slow anyway. Its fine for short hops, but Im not really sure why we consider extending it when the Dart is so much faster. Probably because its a cheap solution rather than a good one.

Can anyone tell me why there are no feeder buses between the Luas and Dart? Or if there is, can anyone point me in their direction? There is one from Shankhill to Cherrywood in the morning but its one way, and in the opposite direction in the evening. A couple of feeder buses from not every, but a couple of Luas stops to the nearest Dart station would be a cheap solution which would improve things a bit - assuming the timetables are decipherable and the buses reliable and frequent.

DU is definitely a must and a rail link to the airport also a must. As the NY times article points out, Dublin is highly desirable as "the New London", but our masters seem oblivious to it.

Zebra3 · 09-07-2016 10:44am

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

As opposed to building MN?

markpb · 09-07-2016 11:10am

syklops wrote:

The Luas is too slow anyway. Its fine for short hops, but Im not really sure why we consider extending it when the Dart is so much faster. Probably because its a cheap solution rather than a good one.

Have a look at the actual travel times for green luas and dart and see how they stack up. DMUs may be fast but DART is not.

syklops · 09-07-2016 12:22pm

markpb wrote: »

Have a look at the actual travel times for green luas and dart and see how they stack up. DMUs may be fast but DART is not.

I'd be interested in seeing a link if you have one. Anytime Ive used the Dart in the past couple of years I seemed to cover a greater distance quicker than the Luas which I use almost daily. I know thats anecdotal, but thats been my perception. I'd love to see some numbers.

cgcsb · 09-07-2016 1:29pm

Another problem is there is nowhere to put them, the Central Dublin office market is running at about 7% vacancy and most of that vacancy is scrappy little floorplates spread across multiple old buildings. Dublin's height restrictions mean that we can't build much office space.

syklops · 09-07-2016 2:49pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Dublin's height restrictions mean that we can't build much office space.

It would make you want to cry wouldnt it? That is the core issue. The docklands could house 25000 people, and be the workplace for 25000 people. Provide better transport links and it would take the pressure off substantially. We dont even need a Chrysler building size building, just a few more floors. The average Dubliner wouldnt even notice the difference.

Its depressing.

marno21 · 09-07-2016 3:07pm

syklops wrote: »

It would make you want to cry wouldnt it? That is the core issue. The docklands could house 25000 people, and be the workplace for 25000 people. Provide better transport links and it would take the pressure off substantially. We dont even need a Chrysler building size building, just a few more floors. The average Dubliner wouldnt even notice the difference.

Its depressing.

The average Dubliner would notice the difference in that there would be a major improvement in quality of life around the city and there may be less congestion in the mornings & evenings.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-07-2016 10:51pm

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

Two airports serving a city the size of Dublin is crazy. Dublin airport has already purchased the land to build its second (third, really) runway, has room for T3 between the runways and probably has enough land already owned by DAA for a fourth terminal. T3 and/or T4 could be operated in competition with DAA if that bothers you.

It's really not in the interest of passengers to say, land at Baldonnel on a flight from Britain then have to go across the city to DUB to make a transatlantic connection. Baldonnel has problems with proximity to the Dublin/Wicklow mountains and if it wasn't so little used it would interfere with DUB flight paths.

Idbatterim · 13-07-2016 3:54pm

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

Its easy for the politicians to lie etc, but the planners will simply give their best predictions I would imagine, you wouldn't see a real interest in them lying...

busiest day ever in Dublin airport ever on Friday 24th June...

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/dublin-airport-welcomes-100-000-passengers-in-a-single-day

riadach · 13-07-2016 9:57pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

Its easy for the politicians to lie etc, but the planners will simply give their best predictions I would imagine, you wouldn't see a real interest in them lying...

busiest day ever in Dublin airport ever on Friday 24th June...

Well given the supposed lifetime of such a project, the setback in the economic hardly warranted cancellation.

If anything, now is the perfect time to get both projects off the ground.

Brian CivilEng · 14-07-2016 7:16am

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

I've seen some of the forecasts, can't share because they were work related, but we are really only 2-3 years behind the forecast. Metro North was expected to open before the annual passengers in the airport reached a number that will be surpassed in 2017 for example.

marno21 · 14-07-2016 4:47pm

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Grandeeod · 14-07-2016 4:50pm

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

No its not funny. Its simply a blatant example of how politicians spoof and fudge when it comes to public transport. They are never called out on it anymore.

Idbatterim · 14-07-2016 5:27pm

My email sent to Alan kelly FG td on 29th June. The reply, totally ignoring two of my key questions. In fairness to him , he has given a decent enough and quick reply when I have previously emailed him.

Dear Alan,

I was made aware of the discussion on metro north in the Dail yesterday. I along with many others have reservations about the new scheme, in terms of sending this project back to the drawing board, but that line has been drawn under the sand it appears. So I would just ask for your opinion on mine and others largest concern? Platforms being shortened from 90m to 60m to save "€100,000,000" out of a €2,000,000,000 i.e. 5%, and you lose 33% capacity. Out of the extra €100,000,000 spend, I am sure a large amount goes directly or indirectly back to government coffers. What is the cost of extending underground stations? major, major money I am assuming and I also assume the logistics are a nightmare. Whatever about ordering less rolling stock etc, that can be easily rectified...

It strikes to me, as being the single most short sighted measure I have ever heard proposed in this country and that is some statement!

Just two other brief questions I have, has any thought been given to automate the line? Given that it wont be in operation until at least 2026 and our recent experience with the Luas strikes? With the amount of very early morning flights and transatlantic departures, where it is recommended you arrive 3 hours early. The current start times of the luas for example i.e 5:30am Mon - Fri, 6:30am Sat and 7am Sunday, arent much use...

Also with the proposed metro south, would it now make sense to tunnel out as far as ranelagh with this revised metro north scheme? Surely you wouldnt start another section of 1km or so tunnel out to ranelagh as another project?

Yours faithfully,

Reply

Dear X,

Thank you for your email.

The previous Government froze the Metro North project due to financial constraints and could not proceed with the previous incarnation due to its rising costs.

The revised project has my full support and adequately links into Dublin's existing transport network, services Dublin Airport and Swords, an emerging city growing at a rate faster than any other area in Ireland over the past decade.

The first priority for me has been the delivery date, the second being the cost to the tax payer. I am satisfied that the project, in its current form, can be delivered within the time frame alluded to the in the 2015 Capital Plan. Furthermore, I am satisfied that in the future, Transport Infrastructure Ireland will be in the position to enlarge capacity along the line, as required.

The questions of linkages to other parts of the city do not fall within my jurisdiction and I believe they are adequately supported by other transport services, LUAS etc, although I am an avid supporter of DART Underground which appears to have put back in the table by Minister Ross.

I would appreciate your address for my records.

Sam Russell · 14-07-2016 5:28pm

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Not just a motorway from Gort to Tuam but €600 million on a bypass for Galway.

Higher numbers of passengers - (25 million per year) got the then Minister of Transport to claim that this would mean more car parks at the airport - not MN or the Clongriffin spur.

Idbatterim · 15-07-2016 9:41am

Also note from yesterday's news, that the fingal area is quickest growing in terms of population! It's one of the few areas in county Dublin with large amounts of land left. Build a high capacity system and you can build a lot more housing etc...

I can't see them going for the original now, even if projections were higher than boomtime. They wouldn't do it to save face. At this stage I'd be happy with 90m platforms and linking MNR to green line at ranelagh as part of the scheme. Surely this has to be on the cards now?! You hardly get a Tbm in to do a 1km or so tunnel as a stand alone project?!

Line should be automated too... Watch how much more people steer clear of it in the street if they know there isn't a set of real eyes in the cabin!

Also why not purchase land and build a massive park and ride north of airport and also have it for airport parking. A tram arriving every few mins is a hell of a lot better than the frequency of buses from the remote car parks at Dublin airport...

cgcsb · 15-07-2016 9:59am

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Dublin's poopulation has already exceeded estimates based on the 2006 and 2011 censuses so if anything planned public transport projects should have their design capacities revised upwards.

thomasj · 15-07-2016 2:17pm

Idbatterim wrote:

Also note from yesterday's news, that the fingal area is quickest growing in terms of population! It's one of the few areas in county Dublin with large amounts of land left. Build a high capacity system and you can build a lot more housing etc...

Fingal is a massive area. Bear in mind the largest electoral division population increase is blanchardstown-blakestown which is based in fingal.

annfield1978 · 15-07-2016 5:46pm

Arup appointed by NTA to undertaken Tunnel/ Station Configuration Study for DART Underground/ Metro North

Grandeeod · 15-07-2016 6:16pm

annfield1978 wrote: »

Arup appointed by NTA to undertaken Tunnel/ Station Configuration Study for DART Underground/ Metro North

More money wasted as the can is kicked down the road...again.:rolleyes:

Grandeeod · 15-07-2016 6:23pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

My email sent to Alan kelly FG td on 29th June. The reply, totally ignoring two of my key questions. In fairness to him , he has given a decent enough and quick reply when I have previously emailed him.

Dear Alan,

I was made aware of the discussion on metro north in the Dail yesterday. I along with many others have reservations about the new scheme, in terms of sending this project back to the drawing board, but that line has been drawn under the sand it appears. So I would just ask for your opinion on mine and others largest concern? Platforms being shortened from 90m to 60m to save "€100,000,000" out of a €2,000,000,000 i.e. 5%, and you lose 33% capacity. Out of the extra €100,000,000 spend, I am sure a large amount goes directly or indirectly back to government coffers. What is the cost of extending underground stations? major, major money I am assuming and I also assume the logistics are a nightmare. Whatever about ordering less rolling stock etc, that can be easily rectified...

It strikes to me, as being the single most short sighted measure I have ever heard proposed in this country and that is some statement!

Just two other brief questions I have, has any thought been given to automate the line? Given that it wont be in operation until at least 2026 and our recent experience with the Luas strikes? With the amount of very early morning flights and transatlantic departures, where it is recommended you arrive 3 hours early. The current start times of the luas for example i.e 5:30am Mon - Fri, 6:30am Sat and 7am Sunday, arent much use...

Also with the proposed metro south, would it now make sense to tunnel out as far as ranelagh with this revised metro north scheme? Surely you wouldnt start another section of 1km or so tunnel out to ranelagh as another project?

Yours faithfully,

Reply

Dear X,

Thank you for your email.

The previous Government froze the Metro North project due to financial constraints and could not proceed with the previous incarnation due to its rising costs.

The revised project has my full support and adequately links into Dublin's existing transport network, services Dublin Airport and Swords, an emerging city growing at a rate faster than any other area in Ireland over the past decade.

The first priority for me has been the delivery date, the second being the cost to the tax payer. I am satisfied that the project, in its current form, can be delivered within the time frame alluded to the in the 2015 Capital Plan. Furthermore, I am satisfied that in the future, Transport Infrastructure Ireland will be in the position to enlarge capacity along the line, as required.

The questions of linkages to other parts of the city do not fall within my jurisdiction and I believe they are adequately supported by other transport services, LUAS etc, although I am an avid supporter of DART Underground which appears to have put back in the table by Minister Ross.

I would appreciate your address for my records.

Seriously and with respect. Don't waste your time. If you really want to publicise the complete failure of the Irish political hierarchy in relation to rail transport, organise yourself and a few others, educate yourselves and then educate the media. And don't bother with Rail Users Ireland. They're about as much use as a fart in a breeze.

Seriously, if you really feel strong about it and I can sense it from your posts, get organised and hit the media.

Avada · 15-07-2016 7:40pm

If you really want to highlight it, talk to TDs in opposition and ask them to submit detailed parliamentary questions.

Grandeeod · 15-07-2016 7:57pm

Avada wrote: »

If you really want to highlight it, talk to TDs in opposition and ask them to submit detailed parliamentary questions.

Sorry, but thats another waste of time. The answers are often similar to what you get in writing. If I had the time I could cite tonnes of examples that came to absolutely nothing. If you want results you go for the jugular via the media and that's not being done anymore.

Avada · 15-07-2016 8:08pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Sorry, but thats another waste of time. The answers are often similar to what you get in writing. If I had the time I could cite tonnes of examples that came to absolutely nothing. If you want results you go for the jugular via the media and that's not being done anymore.

They are similar, but they're a matter of public record.

15-07-2016 8:18pm

Is it time to get a lobbying group together to convince our politicians to build some ****ing infrastructure before it's too late?

There are so many reasons to start now. So many!

Grandeeod · 15-07-2016 8:41pm

Avada wrote: »

They are similar, but they're a matter of public record.

A public record that is decided in advance and frequently vague and irrelevant.

We have these public records dating back many many years, but in particular realting to Luas, Metro and DU. Means nothing unless its delivered to the media by non politically affiliated people. Bottom line..call out all politicians in relation to the shambles and it is a shambles.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

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