Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Who is profiting is the question. Lets speculate a bit about that…

Currently return is profiting simply because a lot of people dont claim deposit back. Middle man re shops are at zero. Customers are at zero or losing but willingly.

If return is printing these and they are applied to imported stuff then return is charging levy, shop which sells them is at zero and customer is at zero if they are returned and deposit claimed. If deposit is not claimed return is profiting same as above and customer is losing but willingly.

If shops are being creative and making them themselves then they are profiting, return is losing (actual loss is debatable since we are constantly reminded they are non profit and they do have quite a big slush fund from non claimed deposits to absorb this cost) and customer is at zero or losing but willingly if deposit is not claimed.

If customers are printing them they are profiting and return is losing and as above they may be able to absorb costs due to excess they get from not claimed deposit and also imports of not labeled stuff is slowly drying out.

Another possible scenario is printing 25c labels and applying them on 15c bottles which is possible but seems too much of a hassle for 10c unless someone is doing it on industrial scale. In this case return is losing but I do not expect to see this happening in any meaningful way to reduce return profits from non claimed deposits.

So take that 0.15 cent deposit you forego, 5 million cans/bottles per day being sold according to ReTurn, and even if 1% of people forego the deposit it's a nice tidy sum!

The Polish shops Ive been into feels like they would be less than 250 sq metres so exempt from having to take back.

We do have few small but 2 big ones and I have seen clear big plastic bags with return logo on them in one of bigger shops. No machine in there.

Yet, there is quite small off license shop which does have a machine in. May be good for business, generally until enterprising unwell person brings in a batch of freshly bin fished containers.

Yes understood but the barcode in that example is a Coca Cola Ireland barcode which doesn't represent the source of the product.

My point was, I really dont think Coca Cola Poland are targetting the Irish market. I suspect someone bought a load of cans in Poland and brought them here.

I got a takeaway the other night with a can of coke, and the writing on the back of the can was in Arabic. No barcode, no re-scam logo. Was I charged 15 cent extra? Frankly, I'm both ignorant and apathetic. In other words, I dont know and I dont care.

I suspect there is a stream of unregistered cans coming into the country from other countries.

Then it could be enterprising garage owner. Could be as simple as scanned coca cola barcode and return logo and printed out…

Which is not right.

I dont know but I was under the impression that if machine is not working they are obliged to do manual return. Is that true or not?

I was in lidl today and both machines out of order staff didnt want to hear anything and cursing people hauling sacks back to their cars. I personally do not use machines in lidl they tends to spit out every third can or bottle. I prefer dunnes machines they do work like charm.

They'd probably prefer to have the machine available to paying customers like yourself.

A bulk machine would be better for people with large sacks of returns.

Thanks for the info.

I think I'll stick to the Carlsberg beer.

Ice cold in Alex 🙂

Thats the predictable problem with this scheme. Those fallen on hard times are likley to go through bins, looking for recyclables and potentially leave a mess whilst they are at it.

As if the streets arent bad enough with all the seagulls ripping at the plastic bin liners.

Dunnes one only say bottle or can and 15c or 25c. I know for a fact that it will take 15c bottle and pay 25c if there is 25c sticker applied. That is sticker from 2l bottle applied to a 0.5l bottle. So much for "shape and weight recognition".

And once again I ask, "has anyone completed a manual return" ???

Since this is the third time me of asking, of a small yet dedicated audience of posters, one could come to a conclusion that manual returns as touted by the Minister is a red herring. Great question to ask of him.

As you say it's a small sample.

I could never see the attraction of manual given the labour cost involved.

Is there one single aspect of this that Return havent made a complete and utter bollix of?

And they are siphoning off tens of millions of euro from the public for the privilege.

Yes. Re-Turn have planned and executed this perfectly:

siphoning off tens of millions of euro from the public

Saying the architects of Re-Turn are incompetent could be doing them a disservice. I'm starting to think theyve achieved 100% of what they wanted including gauging the bare minimum DRS required for this heist.

Just like you're not proving retailers have a choice, just info dumping and expecting others to prove it for you? The main landing page of the rescam website has the exact information needed. It says nothing about having to go to different machines if they're not working. If a place has rvms, they're accepting returns. The options to return are rvm and manual. It's not either or. So, you can say it all day long for all I care but its not helping.

This came up on the thread ages ago and no one seemed sure. I spoke to a friend who manages a Tesco about it and he said that once they had an RVM they were covered for returns and did not have to accept manual returns.

He said that the collection company had a a specific manual return process that required them to provide certain bags that had a barcode that, on collection, would be scanned in along with a form that had listed the amount of cans/bottles in that bag. He said the reason for that is the Tesco store would get payment per item returned so the collectors will not just accept a black bags of bottles or cans.

Approved Body is Re-Scam. Manner agreed, from my reading of that legislation, is not defined. But it's the manner agreed between retailers and re-scam. So the agreement is between the return point (participating retailers, because there is nowhere else at the moment) and the approved body (re-scam). So it's nothing to do with consumers, from my reading of it. The joys of legislation! I don't think there are any "return point operators" as per Part VI, as all of them fall under the umbrella of retailers as per Part V. The only option to consumers is to return at a participating outlet, and doesn't define if it has to be either or. A return point is a return point, and I haven't seen anything specifically state retailers can choose one or the other.

I've emailed re-scam to see what their advise is. Not that I expect a reply, but if I don't get one, I'll just email them again and CC in every single TD I can get an email for.

You have answered your own question there. The siphoning off of tens of millions of euros they did perfectly and ensuring the money keeps rolling in.

Remind who the profits from the non profit set up to run the scheme go to?

Some shops are better at running the machines than others. It is hit and miss. Your mileage may vary.
The machines in my local Dunnes always working, Supervalu, LIDL, ALDI hit and miss.

The rollout of the scheme was a joke, confusion between producers and retailers and re-turn, what was in scope, what wasn't. Barcode needed or not. Products charged deposits but not registered in the scheme so couldn't be returned. LIDL machines needing the caps removed, everybody else saying caps on.
This is all documented on the thread, unless you're calling posters liars?
Most of those issues have been rectified, but it should never have been such a mess to begin with.

Even now, months into the scheme and past the deadline for all products on shelves to have Return logo. And we still see products for sale without the logo. Certain products the machines can be very fussy about such as sub 500ml bottles.

So 'frothing rage'? No need for that, just read the thread in good faith.

From what I can tell, once something goes into either a DRS or for that matter a green bin at home, what happens next is anyones guess. Some does get incinerated. Some gets sent abroad for recycling. There is no data available that I am aware of for percentages.