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Apple Tax Money and Scoliosis

  • 16-09-2024 10:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭


    Now that the Apple Tax case is over, why has nobody in the government come out and said let's fix the scoliosis backlog. The money is there, and nobody would begrudge some of the Apple Tax money being spent on this, as it's a drop in the ocean.

    How can anybody vote government parties back in when scoliosis is not being looked after. The money is there to fix it. So why not fix it?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You only have to read the letters in the papers every day to see there are as many recommendations for good uses of the funds, as there are letter writers. Without demeaning scoliosis, the country is full of people with particular interests or concerns that they feel the money should benefit…building houses, building hospitals, roads, renewable energy projects, support for the defence forces, special needs assistants in schools, mental health facilities, rural public transport, even giving everybody a cash sum to do with as they please. The demands are endless and while each would be a small fraction of the sum, they all add up and they are all important to somebody at the expense of other worthwhile causes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I'm not someone who says throw money at health because it seems to go into a black hole but it appears something like the scoliosis cases could be fast tracked reasonably quickly and not huge cost.

    It's a national disgrace.

    Talk last week or 2 as well of removing the payment that allowed people to travel to north to get eye treatments.

    Mad stuff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    This could be applied to anything and everything the goal will be to use the money in a way that doesn't cause runaway inflation or future growth problems.

    If the scoliosis backlog can be managed in a sustainable way, they'd likely do it, if it's down to lack of theatres, they'll try and build more theatres, lack of staff, they'll try to hire more staff, but they'll be unlikely to solve it in one fell swoop. The problems in health aren't generally the lack of budget/money.

    (another option is paying to get the operations done abroad, depending on the backlogs and standards in other countries)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    It is a national disgrace that only takes a tiny portion of the Apple Tax Money to fix.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    If scoliosis is your main point, it would be nice to see details on how throwing money at it solves the waitlist problem.

    i.e. what and who do you spend the money on exactly.

    As I don't believe the waitlist is currently caused by lack of budget. Would getting the children's hospital open sooner alleviate it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Well the last time money was thrown at it, €19M, it was squandered away. We should be replacing that money for starters and making sure it is properly sent.

    As for the children's hospital, that may help alleviate the issue but who knows when it will open and what the finalist of it will be. Don't forget we are dealing with a government who thought €335k on a Dail bike shed was money well spent, and if someone disagrees with this, well then how come they went ahead and built it.

    But getting back to the main point of this discussion, why the hell are heads not rolling because of the scoliosis issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Maybe start providing details on how to do it then, the amount here isn't anything to do with the Apple money but to try and get attention (to a good thing), but less ranty, more plansy.

    Who did the previous 19m go to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,968 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    There was a budget surplus of over €8 billion last year and another one is projected this year. If the issue could be easily resolved by throwing a few million quid at it I'm sure it would already have been even if the Apple judgement had gone the other way…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,543 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    They appear to be messing about with the treatment purchase fund and criteria and evaluations etc.

    No point in having an available treatment purchase scheme if they cannot get people evaluated - due to waiting lists, to see if they qualify for the scheme.

    Child needs treatment. They don't need 6 levels of evaluation to confirm they need treatment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,526 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    The money will be pissed up against a wall as usual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    If you had a child that is suffering with scoliosis you would understand how important to move this issue forward, watch a child suffering in pain daily with the curve growing and impacting on them for the rest of their lives and when early intervention could ease the pain and suffering, when you see over 300k spent on a bike shelter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    The problem with scoliosis sufferers is the system of referrals and surgeons working on private clinics and admin in Crumlin a disaster area, the minister set up a group to improve the system and still nothing has changed, the people that were put in place to correct the failures can’t be contacted and surgeons secretary’s won’t answer the phones or voicemail on leave, having spent nearly 5 years with a scoliosis child back and forward it’s the hardest work and time a parent can put down with the lack of willingness to help sick children is the soul destroying part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    It’s not down to lack of theatres it’s plain and simple bad management in hospitals and no accountability, the scandal in Temple street will be a white wash, with the investigation team going to look at all the problem cases and then back tracked to only a chosen few to make it look like something is being done, a total joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    The 19mill was used elsewhere and not where it was supposed to go, a new scanner was built in Crumlin for to speed up the waiting list by the minister but has not done anything for the waiting list. Just give you and insight to getting a scan received a letter and date for a scan in Crumlin arrived at appointments time to be told sorry that’s not booked and you may go home, and we with the letter confirmation in our hand, sorry not my problem at reception desk, if you have a problem talk to advocacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    I know someone whose niece died because of scoliosis. The pain children are going through because the muppets in charge don't care or give a fook. If a government minister had family with scoliosis issues, something would be done PDQ, until then we are left with the sheet show that we have at the moment.

    Sorry for what you are going through @Sheep breeder



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Still have €2 billion annually to spend on mostly illegal IPAs though.


    An absolute crime against humanity when you compare the two issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    How do we fix accountability in the health service? I presume the new expensive scanner is going underutilised?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The scoiliosis issue is not due to a lack of funds.

    We have poured money into the HSE.

    It has added 28,000 staff over the last few years.

    The health spending overrun is 1,500 million.

    I presume the scoliosis issue is due to the medical consultants making their private lists a priority, and making their public patients wait?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    To me one major issue is kids are not allowed go private or have private health insurance.

    If children are allowed go private, there will be less children waiting in the queue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Do you mean that I'm wrong about the cause of the waits being the medical consultants prioritising their private patients?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    No I am stating that children are not allowed go private here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Okay.

    I presumed that the reason some kids are waiting for scoliosis treatment is that other kids are getting scoliosis treatment faster due to having insurance?

    You seem to be implying that isn't the case?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    If a government minister had family with scoliosis issues, something would be done PDQ


    This simply isn’t true, and the same sort of underlying logic can be applied to all sorts of circumstances and still that wouldn’t make it any more plausible than it isn’t already:

    https://crohnscolitis.ie/about/news/openlettertaoiseachsimonharris/


    The issues involved with the delays in treatment are, as Sheep breeder points out - nothing to do with there being a lack of money, it’s the lack of coordination between the various stakeholders involved in their care. Those aren’t issues that are solved by throwing money at them. Even if money was the issue, the funds you’re referring to wouldn’t resolve anything quickly; it’s not simply a question of signing off on a contract, the funds will take months to draw down:

    Finance Minister Jack Chambers has said that the ECJ decision “will not impact on the parameters already set out” for the 2025 budget in the July summer economic statement and that drawing down the funds from the escrow account would take months, not weeks.

    https://www.fitchratings.com/research/sovereigns/irelands-fiscal-framework-well-suited-to-absorb-apple-windfall-16-09-2024


    Your ideas, unfortunately, are no different from the perspective of a politician being tone deaf enough to suggest that if you really cared about what you say you care about, you’d run for political office and show everyone how it’s done. The only thing would happen there is you’d quickly find out you’re as useful as a chocolate teapot in that situation as they are, because it’s not a question of lacking the political will to do anything either - it’s that the system has many moving parts which increases the amount of failure points, and there are many, many failures at just the most fundamental and basic levels alone that can’t be resolved from the top down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Thanks.

    What are the causes of the delay, then?

    Are the consultants making their non-scolosis patients a priority?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,979 ✭✭✭skimpydoo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭Greengrass53


    All decent causes but support for the defence forces? Now that is not necessary and is certainly not a priority. Way down the list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭Greengrass53


    But yet you know consultants doing private work isn't.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    And I did not say anything different. If I had a child with scoliosis then of course that would be my priority. My point is that there are many people and groups with priorities equally important to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Nor for me but I was listing some that had been suggested by letter writers to papers. Defence force came up more than once.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't know where you're getting your information but I have a niece who was diagnosed and treated with surgery within the space of about 3 months, (maybe less, about 6 weeks) about 2 years ago. She was a private patient, everything was done efficiently and speedily and without any issues.

    edit:if i'm not mistaken it would have been even quicker but she had a positive covid test on admittance so they had to delay for a week or so.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,824 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Why are we paying €6m a year in operating costs to maintain a cash balance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Because it wasn't a cash balance. No offence intended Francie, but the answer's in the piece you linked to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Sammy2012


    They don't need to use the apple money for this. Giving new parents a once off payment of over €400 is ridiculous. Why don't they use this money to help treat the children? Buying votes like crazy this week.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,821 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Because with the cost of living crisis TD’s and Senators are going to need a pay raise . Plus extra ‘expenses’ for councillors further down the food chain .

    It’s not like our bloated government can afford to waste money on services .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,962 ✭✭✭✭astrofool




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