Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

Trump has you sussed alright. He can put out whatever ridiculous offensive racist drivel and lies and know there are those who will lap it up without scrutiny and go to bat for him on a social media. You are the one giving him a free pass for his blatant racism and attempts to steal the last election. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil when it comes to Trump, that has been proven by your posts here.

Yep, the words are there and the facts are there and the pictures of the rally on the thread showing the Nazi scum and their paraphernalia. Trump called nazis at the rally \ riot fine people, because as has been established it was a Nazi rally organised by Nazis for Nazis. And if you turn up at such a rally and participate, you're a Nazi racist scumbag too. The flags are a bit of a giveaway.
So those are fine people in Trump's descriptions - racist scum.

Why are you defending a racist scumbag who calls Nazis fine people?

And objectively, Trump is a racist pumping out racist drivel.

First, thank you for the detailed response.

On Trump's character. Not sure how you can write all those negatives about him and still want to defend him. There is nothing in your list of character traits that would make one think that he would make a good politician.

How can you say that he speaks what is on his mind, and then spend so long stating that what he said he didn't mean?

I did notice that you left out he was a serial cheater, a constant liar, a wannabe dictator, a democracy denier, a fraudster, has a record of stiffing on payments, has a huge amount of people that worked for him detests him and never want to work with him again.

On your list of what he did that made his last POTUS term as great.

CT. This was a net negative to the country. Massive tax breaks that didn't come near to stimulating the growth needed to pay for it. His growth rates were in line with previous POTUS, without the need for such a massive giveaway.

Judicial appointments. I agree that this is a positive for right-wing thinkers, but this is not something Trump has control over. If people hadn't died when he was POTUS it wouldn't have happened and clearly, Trump was merely delivering to those who helped him get into power. The right wind and evangelicals helped him get power and this was their payback. But he cannot promise to be able to repeat it.

Deregulation. Like Brexit, the cry to deregulate always sounds great. But regulations are, mainly, made to protect the majority from the excesses of the controlling minority.

1st Steps act - Agree on this, but it flies in the face of almost everything he stands for.

Covid Response - This was a complete disaster. He denied it, attacked those who wanted to take action, openly attacked the medical experts, and focused more on himself and his ratings that saved people's lives. Reports state that Warpspeed was mainly due to Trump getting out of the way and letting those best placed take control. And remember that Trump defunded the China medicines taskforce that was tasked with watching out for early warning about any potential issues.

ME - He was responsible for stoking the tensions that finally blew up, after years of planning. He moved the embassy to Jerusalem in a move he knew would antagonise the Palestinians and the rest of the region. He planted the seeds of what we are now living through.

His continued acquiescence to Russia, including his continued denouncing of NATO, led Putin to believe that the West had lost its appetite and ability to stand up to him. This was given more belief when Trump showed that he wasn't going to support Ukraine unless they gave him what he wanted and Putin took that to mean he could plan the attack. Biden should have been far more unequivocal with Putin and should have made more of an effort to show that despite Trump's effort NATO was still together and willing to do whatever was necessary. But, like the ME, the seeds were sown by Trump

Trump was as pro-war as every other POTUS. The US, itself, is pro-war. It actively enables conflict around the world, either directly or indriectly, in order to achieve it strategic goals. Trump poured even more money into the deep military complex. He inflamed tensions with Iran for example. He stated several times that he welcomed the opportunity to enter into war. Timing was all that was the difference between himself and other POTUS.

Jobs growth is better under Biden and Trump's jobs growth was nothing particularly impressive. Obama delivered more.

Crime has reduced under Biden.

In the run up to the election, Melania comes out in the much anticipated message of support of her husband!

*Checks earpiece*

Sorry... Not her husband.

It's... In defence of her nude photos?

Ah would ya stop.

Those are all the organizations that attended.

If 2 Nazis from a Nazi org are joined in a rally by 1 'fine person,' you have 3 Nazis.

Let me know when you find any of the "fine people" but anyway, the central point is that what Kamala Harris said at the debate is objectively and categorically true:

✅ a mob was carrying tiki torches

✅ they were spewing antisemitic hate

✅ as President, Trump said there were "[very] fine people, on [both] sides"

Feel free to debunk any of those claims.

I think it's fair to say you're by default a **** person if you attend a rally organised by Neo Nazis.... Think it's a pretty reasonable position.

Re the fact checking at the debate. Kamilla said trump was behind project 2025.

Whom should the moderators have fact checked this with. Donald Trump??

Whe not in the studio to "fact check" these claims.

The things people are claiming moderators didn't fact check Haris on actually were checked by Trump himself

Thanks for sharing that:

For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong. 

No one is disputing what Trump literally said with the words from his mouth, but Trumpers seem to pretend like everyone doesn't know the context of what he was saying, given that there were no fine people, they were all nazis and white supremacists, so the only people who could be getting comforted by Trump there were, in fact, nazis and white supremacists.

But again, this is immaterial: the reason this is coming up at all again today is because of what Kamala said at the debate, and what she said didn't reference nazis or white supremacy and bluntly stated facts: there was a mob holding tiki torches, they were spewing antisemitic hate, and Trump said there were fine people there. None of that is up for dispute because it is all objectively true, even Snopes doesn't deny that those words came out of his McMuffin hole. There is also ample contemporaneous evidence to show that nazi and white supremacist and alt right groups took comfort from Trump's statements at Charlottesville, and knew what he meant, like everyone else did, and that's the entire underlying issue:

https://time.com/4902308/white-nationalists-supremacists-donald-trump-charlottesville/

On Monday, Trump condemned white supremacists and called racism “evil.” But that response — which came nearly 48 hours after the violence in Charlottesville — was dismissed by many white supremacists. “He sounded like a Sunday school teacher. I just don’t take him seriously,” white nationalist Richard Spencer told reporters on Monday, according to HuffPost. “It sounded so hollow and vapid.”

Spencer praised Trump’s comments on Tuesday. “Trump’s statement was fair and down to earth. #Charlottesville could have been peaceful, if police did its job,” Spencer said on Twitter, adding: “I’m proud of him for speaking the truth.”

Even non-redpilled Republicans knew what Trump was saying:

Trump’s remarks, meanwhile, quickly drew criticism from both Republicans and Democrats.

“We must be clear. White supremacy is repulsive,” Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan said on Twitter. “This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-nationalist-calls-presidents-denouncement-of-hate-groups-kumbaya-nonsense_n_59923778e4b09096429961e8

 Nathan Damigo, a white supremacist and Marine veteran who was filmed punching a 95-pound female protester in Berkeley, California, earlier this year, also told HuffPost he was not too worried about Trump’s statement. Damigo was “disappointed” in Trump, but the president’s “statements were vague, they were ambiguous, and oftentimes people in his position will talk that way to skirt around difficult issues,” he said. “When Trump says that he denounces racism, that could mean many different things to different people.”

When HuffPost asked a third Spencer associate — who said he was 28 but wouldn’t give his real name, instead calling himself Marcus Aurelius — about Trump’s statement, he said, “Yeah, of course he’s going to do that.” The man added, “It’s the same platitudes over and over. You’ve heard it once, you’ve heard it a thousand times.”

Again another debunk. With video. Arent facts fun

They are, it’s when facts are notably absent that there’s no fun in debunking complete nonsense. It’s actually painful:

I think for Trump the people who came to protest the neo Nazis were the main focus of his wish to demonize .They were the ones he considers to be "enemies of the people" (or was it the journalists whom he categorized thus?)

He was caught in a bind because he knew the neo Nazis were roundly despised by society in general.

So rather than say "I hate them both"(he probably hadn't given too much attention to demonizing them and in fact might feel closer to them in truth)…so rather than try to demonize both groups he came out with "good people on both sides" when the last thing he really wanted to express was any sympathy for those protesting the neo Nazi march.

He had a bit of a brain fart because he couldn't express his real feelings and what he came out with was the closest he could express.

Lying is first nature to Trump but even for him it can be tricky sometimes formulating the lies satisfactorily

Health warning... I dont know the track record of this poll source.

New poll shows clear lead for Harris in Pennsylvania.

PENNSYLVANIA: Harris 51%, Trump 45%, Stein 1%, Oliver 1%

MICHIGAN: Harris 50%, Trump 45%, Stein 2%

WISCONSIN: Harris 48%, Trump 47%, Stein 1%

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3905

17th

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Poll is way off

Wisconsin close but Penn clear lead, no way that is anyway accurate

The more this election progresses, the more Trump takes on the character of a Mob boss with mob moll.

Gods this is beautiful

Kamala talking **** about his rallies has really signed over the lease to his brain

“By the way, you know, when she said that, well, your rallies people leave. Honestly, nobody does. And if I saw them leaving, I’d say, and ladies and gentlemen make America great again and I’d get the hell out, ok?”

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/donald-trump-town-hall-crowds-message-b2614715.html

Did you get that?

Trump is so pathologically narcissistic that before he'd ever let anyone ever evidence anyone leaving his rally early again, he will instead, start ending his rallies early.

He is wrapped around her finger.

It makes perfect sense when you consider how deeply Trump cares about his image and his self-worth as an 'entertainer,' calling him a fascist etc. never bothered him but calling him weird and pointing out that hundreds of people would shuffle out early from his rallies and the crowd sizes were underfilling arenas? That **** bothered him to his soul (whatever's left of it).

Protestors could play him like a fiddle, where in eg. 2016 they once would stand in the crowd and shout things and hold up protest signs they could just pose as ordinary supporters and just file out of the arena and it would drive him **** nuts.

The face he made the moment he registered what Kamala said to probably over 100 million people watching the debate on TV and online, that his rallies were nonsensical and boring and people leave early:

She had the questions 😀😀😀😀😀😀. Yeah, those questions that were completely out of the blue and not predictable at all. Who knew they’d ask about the economy, immigration and abortion, and not rockets to the moon. ? Wow. She’s not “really poor” at answering questions btw, that’s your boy. Have you heard some of his answers lately ? It’s very difficult to make the case that he’s not just thick as pigsh1t.”

Trump also seems today like he wants to see if he has any Congressional clout left, calling on Republicans to shut down the government over a conspiracy theory that illegals are registering to vote, repeating 2020 election lies etc.

Because government shutdowns have polled so well for Republicans in the recent past, you know? No they certainly haven't lost midterms and **** over their games with the federal budget. It's not even clear what shutting the federal government down would accomplish in relation to voter registration, which is all handled by the states: "The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof."

Most I could figure is he hopes to cause chaos for the FEC which will have to partially shutdown if the government does, their 2023 shutdown contingency plan shows they'd go from 309 active employees, down to 32, 19 of them being for security of premises and such, and 13 to continue explicitly and implicitly necessary legal functions under the law and constitution. It could potentially ease resistance to efforts by MAGA operatives within the states that have burrowed their way into the states election systems, like the MAGA election board in Georgia.

Either way I don't see this attempt to pressure the government to shutdown being particularly popular with voters, especially independents, who neither appreciate shutdowns nor voting rights being curtailed. To shutdown the government and do anything to impinge election integrity would almost certainly blow back in their faces. At any rate most Republican lawmakers aren't wanting for this kind of drama, most lawmakers have shown they are highly reluctant to take responsibility for government shutdowns which is exactly what would happen in this case. Instead most Republicans have rebuffed efforts by staunch MAGA figures in Congress to push for these kind of shutdowns etc., and time and again have gone with continuing resolutions to keep the government open in lieu of the fact that Republicans can't even govern themselves to pass a budget they're happy with.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-demands-republicans-shut-down-government-over-baseless-claim-democrats-are-registering-tens-of-thousands-of-illegal-voters/

Reminds me of Graham and Cruz.... (And to a lesser extent, Romney)

For something more sane, 100 ex-Republican officials call Trump 'unfit to serve'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/18/election-harris-endorsement-republicans